djb-4: "Mac v. PC Tech Rate Evaluation"

dojoboy

Tsalagi
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
4,280
Location
Tanasi, USA
This game's purpose is to evaluate a mod.bic created by DnG which attempts to bring the Mac 1.21g version's tech rate into parity w/ the PC 1.29f version's tech rate.

All settings are standard, including the map. Chhosen civ is France, because they need a little lovin' right now. ;) Rival civs include, Germany, Russia, China, America, England, Babylon, and Persia. Of course, the difficulty level is monarch. The game is open to five committed and experienced players. Please review the SG abstract stickied at the top of this forum. Please post if interested. I hope the usual suspects will be involved: Txurce, DnG, Zwingli, Tao, etc. You know who you are.

The following two posts are in-game pics. We, of course, are playing to win and any restrictions may be applied. I've already taken my turns, post later.
 
My turns:

4000 BC - Settled Paris.
3950 BC - Researching Bronze Working.
3900 BC - Irrigating.
3850 BC - zzz
3800 BC - Warrior built, exploring.
3750 BC - Mining.
3700 BC - zzz
3650 BC - zzz
3600 BC - Warrior built, defense.
3550 BC - zzz
3500 BC - zzz
3450 BC - zzz
3400 BC - Mining.
3350 BC - zzz
3300 BC - Goody-hut; barbs = elite warrior.
3250 BC - zzz
3200 BC - zzz
3150 BC - Contact w/ America. I traded Alphabet for Broze Working & gold. I forgot why I was playing and didn't document turns remaing for BW; researching Warrior Code. America didn't have any more techs than France at this point.
3100 BC - Roadwork to connect game resource.
3050 BC - zzz

Dialogue is open.
 
I guess I'll join in. But not right now. I'm pretty busy this week, up until Thursday/Friday. After that, I'm pretty free to play.
 
dojoboy: just having a quick look at the save raises a couple of questions:
  1. you irrigated a tile, but don't work it
  2. you mined the hill, but don't work it
  3. you road another hill, not the mined one
  4. you research at 20% ???
  5. why didn't you go for pottery?
  6. why didn't you trade pottery from the Americans and build a granary before settler?
  7. why do you research warrior code instead of irom working?
  8. why don't you lumber the game forrest and irrigate, road it afterwards?
    [/list=1]IMHO not at all optimal turns.
 
Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz
I guess I'll join in. But not right now. I'm pretty busy this week, up until Thursday/Friday. After that, I'm pretty free to play.

I understand DnG. FWIW, turns last maybe 15 min. early game to an hour late game. If you have a turn every three - four days, not much time will be required.
 
Ok, I'm in also.

The effects of the mod might not be very noticable on Monarch, so we should probably note the approximate cost of researching new techs. Also, to avoid confusion we might want to implement some of the sucession game conventions:


1. Post "I got it" after downloading the save with the intent of playing a turn so that we don't have multiple people running the same turns.

2. Post a roster notice after the turn reports for the same reason. ie:


-dojoboy
-tao <-------- Up Now
-Zwingli<----- Next
-??????
-DiamondzAndGunz
 
I take a look at the save, the land improvements are not very useful right now as they emphasize production at a time when food is much more important. The irrigated grassland is no better than a normal grassland in despotism, and working either of the two hills will slow down population growth (tao gave some good suggestions as to what is wrong with the specific improvements).

3050 BC- Even though I will probably not work the hill very often in the early game, I let the worker complete the hill road since turns are already invested. I buy pottery from Abe for 55 gold, switch the settler to a granery, and move the warrior out of Paris to explore.

3000- 10% Research started toward Mathmatics (due in 40) hopefully we might finish this first to trade to other civs. Luxuries up to 10%.

2950- worker finishes hill road, moves to the forest game.
2900- worker begins chopping
2850- zzz
2800- zzz
2750- zzz
2710- Finish granery, start settler.
2670- Chop game forest, start irrigating game.
2630- zzz
2590- Start roading game.
2550- Paris grows, lux to 30 %.
2510- zzz
2470- Settler completes, start warrior. Lux off.
2390- Lux up. Worker starts improving river plains.
2350- Found Orleans, start warrior.
2310- zzz
2270- Pop goody hut, get angry barbarians.
2230- Our exploring warrior survives the barbarian attack.
Paris starts a settler

2190- We meet Russia who has 3 cities, and has the techs: Wheel, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, and Iron Working. America has the same technologies, and also has 3 cities.


Paris is currently configured for growth, but is working 2 essentially unimproved tiles to do so. The worker is currently chopping another forest next to Paris which will complete the settler sooner than indicated. The cleared forest will allow the worker to improving the underlying tile, and move on to the still unimproved bonus grassland.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/djb-4,_2190_BC.zip
 
There really isn't a lot of good land in the immediate vicinity of Paris. Here are some suggested city sites. The body of water next to the incense patch is a lake, so I've placed a city there for the free aqueduct. Paris can produce a settler every 8 turns on average, limited by food. With any city placement, we are going to need a lot of workers to make this jungle infested land useful. Russia is to the east.

Edit: There seems to be a decent city site to the north of Paris, but the black fog must be removed.

 
I'm basically happy with my starting position. Our neck of the woods may suck, but at least there's no one squeezing us, thanks to all those mountains and jungle. On a different note, it's amazing how quickly we've fallen behind in tech. I intend to expand to Zwingly's second suggested site rather than the first, as it's more likely to be taken by another civ. And given our lousy terrain, Orleans will serve as a warrior/worker pump for my twenty turns, while the newer cities try to grow in the weeds.

2150: Orleans builds warrior, starts worker.
2110: ...
2070: Forest cleared, irrigation begins.
2030: Paris builds settler, starts another.
1990: Irrigation complete, road begins.
Orleans builds worker, starts warrior.
1950: ...
1910: Lyons founded by the lake, starts granary to take advantage of it.
Worker starts clearing jungle north of Orleans.
Warrior discovers Germany to the NE. They have the same four techs as
everyone else - but Russia has researched math, while we are 14 turns
away. Holding off is technological suicide, so I buy it for 151g + 2gpt.
I trade America math and 1gpt for iron working, ceremonial burial, and 9g.
I then trade Germany math and 2gpt for mysticism (a hidden tech), the
wheel, and 6g. I then start researching polytheism (40 turns), which the
AI tends to neglect. The wheel came at a 2gpt savings versus buying it
separately, and shows us where horses are - just outside Paris' borders.
Warrior code seemed optional, given that we have iron near Paris ready to
be accessed for swordsmen.
1870: Russia starts on the Oracle.
Start mining bonus square north of Paris.
1830: Paris builds settler, starts another.
1790: Bonus square mined, start building road.
1750: Exploring warrior killed by barbs.
Orleans builds warrior, starts another.
1725: ...
1700: Bonus road finished, intend to connect iron for defense.
1675: Warrior discovers Babylon SSW. Trade math for Warrior code and 4g.
1650: Start road S of Paris instead of connecting iron - archers now available for
defense, and warriors preferable for garrisoning our rapid expansion.
1625: Paris builds settler, starts another.
Rheims founded - N of incense, safely away from barb camp - and
starts building a warrior.
Orleans builds a warrior, starts on a worker.
1600: Finish road S of Paris.
1575: Tours founded north of Paris - a tight squeeze, but those productive tiles,
which can be shared, will be valuable for a long time.
Roadbuilding started on wine hill.
1550: Jungle N of Orleans cleared, road started.
1525: Wine road completed, brings wine into Paris.
Orleans builds worker, starts another.
1500: Workers split up to connect Tours, Rheims and Lyons to Paris.
Persia about to be discovered in deep S.

An arithmetical analysis of my moves will reveal that I played an extra turn - I forgot to write down an early one where nothing happened. There's a possibility that not all of the civs have made contact with each other, so writing may be worth buying when it becomes available. I would suggest expanding NE of the incense - near the game - and then both toward Germany and E on the coast, near the fish. Regardless, the majority of our cities will soon be productive. A decision will also need to be made pretty soon on whether to build some archers or swordsmen.

With regard to DnG's mod, research is clearly slower - I couldn't get it down from the minimum for anyhting close to being worth the money.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/djb-4, _1500_BC.sav
 
I checked out the save, and the situation is much better than before :goodjob:. The other civs seem to all have contact with each other plus Persia looking through the diplomatic screens, but peering under the fog shows that we will meet Persia soon as well.

The above link does not work because the upload system is case sensitive.
Here is the correct link.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/djb-4,_1500_BC.SAV
 
The latest save needs to be zipped. I'm reading gibberish when I click it. The previous zipped save downloaded well.

We've got three in, let's look for two more players.
 
@ Txurce: Could the screenshot be any blurrier? :D

@ dojoboy: Just control-click it, and click "Download link to disk."
 
Ok- since I'm sick and stuck at home, I think I'll go ahead and play now.

dojoboy- Next, most likely.
Zwingli-
Txurce-
DiamondzAndGunz- Up now.
??????
 
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