DLC packs post Tides of Power

[Lord Lakely]

that Shaka Impi idea, man that'd be so cool.

I made a design for that a few months back, right after release i think. But something like this:

Spoiler :

Shaka
Traits: Militaristic, Scientific
Ability:

• Has access to a Unique Unit, the Impi, an Infantry unit Shaka can train across all ages. Impi's and other Infantry units upgrade for free whenever you unlock a new tier of Infantry units in the Tech Tree.
• +1 STR on Infantry units for every 10 Technological Masteries Shaka has researched in this game
• Technological Masteries are cost +50% more Science to Research.

would be something I'd like to see, either on him, or on a similarly appropriate leader.

@Evie It came to me today when thinking about potential Antiquity Norse substitutes, if not using a generic Norse civ, that I'm thinking that the Saxons might work?
The term "Saxons" was used to describe the coastal raiders north of the Rhine during Roman times. The design could pull from the Continental Saxons and the ones that migrated into Great Britain. They'd be a great progression into Normans, Iceland, and any Exploration German civ.

Not from the same region, but the Illyrians can be used this way.

 

[Evie]

@Evie It came to me today when thinking about potential Antiquity Norse substitutes, if not using a generic Norse civ, that I'm thinking that the Saxons might work?
The term "Saxons" was used to describe the coastal raiders north of the Rhine during Roman times. The design could pull from the Continental Saxons and the ones that migrated into Great Britain. They'd be a great progression into Normans, Iceland, and any Exploration German civ.

I a strong proponent of the Saxons as a civ because they do a much better job of covering Germanic europe than the Goths, but I'm also very much of the opinion that we shouldn't sleep on the possibility of a Varangian civ as an Antiquity norse that's more focused on riverine expansion. They have (thanks to the Varangian guard) brand name recognition, and name-wise they avoid the thorny issue of the Rus/Russian confusion.

Yes, having the Byzantine in one age and the Varangian in another might seem weird at first, but while the dates are odd, - that part is actually historical. The Varangian Guard and Varangian people share a name, but the people normally caleld Varangian are most associated with the 8th-10th century whereas the guard only gets formally organized just before 1000 AD.

The Varangian guard also gives a good excuse for the Varangian to have a future Byzantium among their unlocks (alongside Iceland and Muscowy/Kiev/Novgorod).

(Crazy civilization ability thought: give the Varangian a delayed UU! They are an antiquity civ which unlock an exploration UU for whichever civ succeeds them - the Varangian Guard.)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I made a design for that a few months back, right after release i think. But something like this:

Spoiler :
Shaka
Traits: Militaristic, Scientific
Ability:

• Has access to a Unique Unit, the Impi, an Infantry unit Shaka can train across all ages. Impi's and other Infantry units upgrade for free whenever you unlock a new tier of Infantry units in the Tech Tree.
• +1 STR on Infantry units for every 10 Technological Masteries Shaka has researched in this game
• Technological Masteries are cost +50% more Science to Research.

would be something I'd like to see, either on him, or on a similarly appropriate leader.

Anything to keep the Spearman vs. Tank meme alive.

I a strong proponent of the Saxons as a civ because they do a much better job of covering Germanic europe than the Goths, but I'm also very much of the opinion that we shouldn't sleep on the possibility of a Varangian civ as an Antiquity norse that's more focused on riverine expansion. They have (thanks to the Varangian guard) brand name recognition, and name-wise they avoid the thorny issue of the Rus/Russian confusion.

Yes, having the Byzantine in one age and the Varangian in another might seem weird at first, but while the dates are odd, - that part is actually historical. The Varangian Guard and Varangian people share a name, but the people normally caleld Varangian are most associated with the 8th-10th century whereas the guard only gets formally organized just before 1000 AD.

The Varangian guard also gives a good excuse for the Varangian to have a future Byzantium among their unlocks (alongside Iceland and Muscowy/Kiev/Novgorod).

(Crazy civilization ability thought: give the Varangian a delayed UU! They are an antiquity civ which unlock an exploration UU for whichever civ succeeds them - the Varangian Guard.)

I'm on the fence about the Varangians considering it might be confusing with the Varangian Guard being a thing later. I would think that the Varangians/Kyivan Rus' would work better for Exploration unless we go the with crazy ability you came up with, because I think the Druzhina would work better for the civ.

 

[Ryansinbela]

if the Impi get added as a leader unique
What would the Zulu unique unit be

 

[Lord Lakely]

if the Impi get added as a leader unique
What would the Zulu unique unit be

There would be no Zulu Civ. Their place would be taken by either the Xhosa or the Shona.

EDIT: or Lesotho, who have a pretty good wonder choice in Thaba Bosiu, which is something the Zulu sorely lack.

 

[Evie]

IF the Varangian guard were likely to be a UU, I'd agree, but,...c'mon. It's the Byzantines. They've been some variant of the Cataphract-and-Dromon show for four generations now (Dromon in III, Cataphract in IV, Cataphract and Dromon in V, Domon and Hippodrome-making-heavy-but-we're-not-calling-them-cataphracts in VI)

In a world where the Varangian Guard won't be a UU (unless it's done the way I suggested), there's really no obstacle to using the Varangians as the name of an Ancient civ.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There would be no Zulu Civ. Their place would be taken by either the Xhosa or the Shona.

This is literally the first game where I question if the Zulu will be in the game or not. Shaka, I feel like will be in eventually no matter if the Zulu are in as a playable civ. Maybe it's because of having to find an associated wonder?

IF the Varangian guard were likely to be a UU, I'd agree, but,...c'mon. It's the Byzantines. They've been some variant of the Cataphract-and-Dromon show for four generations now (Dromon in III, Cataphract in IV, Cataphract and Dromon in V, Domon and Hippodrome-making-heavy-but-we're-not-calling-them-cataphracts in VI)

I'd like the Cataphracts to go to an Exploration Persia civ since that's where they originated. Though they should use the name Aswaran instead.
But yeah, the Byzantines can keep the Dromon.

In a world where the Varangian Guard won't be a UU (unless it's done the way I suggested), there's really no obstacle to using the Varangians as the name of an Ancient civ.

Yeah, even if the Varangian Guard isn't in the game as a UU, I could see how it would be confusing to potentially have an Antiquity Varangian civ not directly associated with a Varangian Guard unit.
But if it went Varangians into the Rus' or Byzantines with a Varangian Guard unlock by playing them, I'd think that would be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Evie]

I think the Varangians sit in that sweet spot of "people will know it's a name they might have heard somewhere but won't know enough about to be too set in their expectations" that it would largely work out.

But honestly yeah the Varangian Guard as a next-era unit is such a sweet concept and a great play on the idea of UUs in the era system.

 

[pjotroos]

I think the Varangians sit in that sweet spot of "people will know it's a name they might have heard somewhere but won't know enough about to be too set in their expectations" that it would largely work out.

But honestly yeah the Varangian Guard as a next-era unit is such a sweet concept and a great play on the idea of UUs in the era system.

Yeah, I really like the idea. It's proper asymetrical design, and plays into the "history is built in layers" very well.
You could also have "Varangian Guard" as a policy card on their final mastery node, that lets you train the unit through the ages, but yours sounds more fun.

 

[Ryansinbela]

This is literally the first game where I question if the Zulu will be in the game or not. Shaka, I feel like will be in eventually no matter if the Zulu are in as a playable civ. Maybe it's because of having to find an associated wonder?

I'd like the Cataphracts to go to an Exploration Persia civ since that's where they originated. Though they should use the name Aswaran instead.
But yeah, the Byzantines can keep the Dromon.

Yeah, even if the Varangian Guard isn't in the game as a UU, I could see how it would be confusing to potentially have an Antiquity Varangian civ not directly associated with a Varangian Guard unit.
But if it went Varangians into the Rus' or Byzantines with a Varangian Guard unlock by playing them, I'd think that would be interesting to see how it plays out.

But then what would the Xhosa wonder be

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

But then what would the Xhosa wonder be

I don't know. I never mentioned them. As for the Shona, which were also mentioned, they could get Great Zimbabwe.
I still think the Zulu are doable if they go for a specific Royal Kraal as their wonder, even if it's not the first thing anyone thinks of as a World Wonder. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened in game.
A real wildcard would be the Boers and the Voortrekker Monument for Southern Africa.

 

[marius_kaparius]

An nice addition could be candidates for the single city path started by Carthage. I guess Pirate Republic for Exploration and Qajar for Modern is the closest to this playstyle?

 

[marius_kaparius]

But then what would the Xhosa wonder be

If Xhosa is modern they could take a similar approach to Iceland by making it the birthplace / residence of someone closely tied to the Civ. Nelson Mandela was born in Mvezo and attended school in Qunu which are tiny Xhosa villages.

 

[moondog385]

If I were in charge of the game, the next DLCs would add two civs per age for the Americas and Africa. Of course there are very good reasons I’m not in charge but I digress

Filling out Japan and Korea is definitely welcome. The way I see it, after that’s taken care of, Firaxis really doesn’t have a choice but to look outside of Asia. Not that there aren’t any other fun Asian civs that could be added (Exploration Persia, Antiquity Central Asia), but I think that’s the “essential” heavy hitters.

 

[aieeegrunt]

The Mausoleum of Theodoric is already an Antiquity Wonder, so I would assume that would be their associated wonder.

Though the Grand Bazaar is in Exploration, and the Ottomans are in Modern with a different wonder so I guess they could be, but I doubt it.

I'm pretty sure they are antiquity. They had long history before taking on Rome; they are early civilization in technological sense; Germanic tribes need antiquity representation; Normans already take the spot of Germanic successors of Rome.

And, most important from gameplay perspective, their wonder is already in game and it's in antiquity.

Ya that makes sense

 

[benjamin28]

I hope we don't get themed DLCs, especially if those cover areas of the planet that are not significant "markets" for Civ. Humankind did something like that and to me it gives the impression that the area covered by a geographic DLC is very much "optional" or an afterthought, and that the really "important" civs will come with the first big expansion.

THAT SAID, if we were to have a South American DLC (with four civs, like all DLCs so far), I would pick Tiwanaku (antiquity), Chibchas (exploration), Brazil (modern) and Mapuches (modern).

For a Subsaharian Africa DLC I'd pick Ghana (antiquity), Zagwe Ethiopia (exploration), Kilwa (exploration) and Merina (modern).

PS: I really hope the next batch of leaders are peaceful. We've gotten nothing but militaristic leaders in the DLCs so far (except for Ada).

 

[Lord Lakely]

This is literally the first game where I question if the Zulu will be in the game or not. Shaka, I feel like will be in eventually no matter if the Zulu are in as a playable civ. Maybe it's because of having to find an associated wonder?

The Zulu wonder choices are *dire* yeah. The Sotho, Tswana and Swazi all have better options.

But then what would the Xhosa wonder be

When i did my little deep dive,

I stumbled across a location called the 'Nqadu Great Place', which to my understanding appears to be a coronation place, of sorts? Documentation on its is really poor (for instance, I know that both the House of Rharhabe and Gcaleka had actual palaces, but I've yet to find documentation on what they looked like or where exactly they were located in the Ciskei and Transkei), but there is potential for an interesting Wonder. You can make it appear like a traditional Xhosa village with the typical rondavel houses during a celebration. You can make it appear more impressive than 'just a larger kraal' which is what the Zulu wonder would be.

Just as a rule of thumb for an African themed DLC, I would like to see a pack of six Civs that include:

2 Civs for East Africa that pair with Aksum (+ an abyssinian leader): Ethiopia & Swahili (Kilwa)
2 Civs for West Africa that pair with Songhai: Ghana & Ashanti
2 Civs for the Bantu that pair with Buganda (+ Shaka): Bantu & Shona

The Abyssinian leader can also be someone from Nubia or the Swahili, i'm not picky.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

2 Civs for East Africa that pair with Aksum (+ an abyssinian leader): Ethiopia & Swahili (Kilwa)
2 Civs for West Africa that pair with Songhai: Ghana & Ashanti
2 Civs for the Bantu that pair with Buganda (+ Shaka): Bantu & Shona

The Abyssinian leader can also be someone from Nubia or the Swahili, i'm not picky.

Aren't the Swahili a Bantu people?
If that's the case, then I could also see Kilwa paired with Antiquity Bantu and Shaka with Exploration Somalia going with Modern Ethiopia instead.
Oh, and Mansa Musa can return as the leader for West Africa.

 

[Xandinho]

I’m of the opinion that not every civ needs to have an associated wonder in its design. Of course, most of them can and should have one, but why not allow exceptions for one or two civs to forgo having an associated wonder while being compensated with something else in an asymmetrical design?

The Zulu will certainly appear at some point, but their controversial option for the associated wonder is something that intrigues me. We need to reach the conclusion that the Zulu shouldn’t have one.

 

[Evie]

I’m of the opinion that not every civ needs to have an associated wonder in its design. Of course, most of them can and should have one, but why not allow exceptions for one or two civs to forgo having an associated wonder while being compensated with something else in an asymmetrical design?

The Zulu will certainly appear at some point, but their controversial option for the associated wonder is something that intrigues me. We need to reach the conclusion that the Zulu shouldn’t have one.

"Certainly" looks a lot less certain when one considers that they are basically Shaka's civ and Shaka can appear without them now.

We're pretty certainly getting Shaka or the Zulu; a lot less likely to get both.