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DMOC's Immortal Game #1 - Playing as Darius I

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    My Immortal game has started. These are the rounds played:

    Round 1: 4000 BC to 2900 BC (44 Turns)-Exploration
    Round 2: 2875 BC to 1075 BC (73 Turns)-War with Wang Kon
    Round 3: 1050 BC to 425 BC (28 Turns)-Post-Early Rush
    Round 4: 410 BC to 115 AD (36 Turns)-A Conflict Revived
    Round 5: 130 AD to 580 AD (31 Turns)-Alone with Elizabeth
    Round 6: 595 AD to 835 AD (17 Turns)-Setbacks

    BONUS ROUND: To 1887 AD [End Game]-The Prestige


    Well, the first time I attempted to post a game up on these forums, it kind of failed since I lost the save for that last game (which if I recall correctly I posted months ago).

    But now I decided to again try and post a game up on the forums here, this time remembering the save (hopefully). However, the difficulty level will be slightly different. I used to be a warlords and noble player until I came to this website and now I am comfortable on the higher difficulties, which is why I am going to play this game on -- you guessed it -- Immortal difficulty.

    I hope that this game will be a challenge to me and that I can solicit much advice from you viewers. Since I am quite new to Immortal level I decided to go with a fairly easy leader to start with. The leader is (I'm sure by now that you've figured it out) Darius I of Persia.

    Our illustrious leader is considered one of the best in the game because of his two economic traits and a kick-ass awesome unique unit. In case you desire to know some more detailed information about Darius' traits and unique attributes, here they are:

    Traits:

    1. Financial: +1 :commerce: on plots with 2 or more :commerce:.
    2. Organized: -50% civic upkeep cost. Double :hammers: speed of Courthouse, Factory, and Lighthouse.

    Unique Unit:

    Immortal: Replaces the chariot unit. Has 2 movement points, 4 :strength:, costs 45 :hammers:, has a 10% chance of withdrawing from attack, and has +100% attack versus axemen. These are all the attributes of a normal chariot, but what makes the Immortal unique is its +50% attack AND defense verses archers as well.

    Unique Building:

    Apothecary: Replaces the grocer building. It retains the normal qualities of 225 :hammers:, +25% :gold:, +1 :health: for banana, spices, sugar, wines, and can turn two citizens into merchants. The apothecary simply adds +2 :health:.

    Starting technologies: Hunting and Agriculture

    Now that we have Darius' stuff out of the way, let's turn to the map settings.

    -Continents map in order to reduce vassal/snowballing exploits by the human player.
    -Epic game speed to reduce human movement exploits on marathon speed and to also make the game last longer so I can get more advice and have more fun as well. :)
    -Standard size since that's what everyone else uses. We are also using the standard 6 AI's.
    -Medium Sea Level to prevent the AI from expanding too much in low sea level and also to prevent the human from gaining much advantage from a higher sea level (means less expansion for AI's).

    The rest of the map settings are pretty much normal. Everything in the column which has "no barbarian" settings, "choose religions", etc are unselected and of course, all victory conditions are enabled.

    And finally, the moment everyone's been waiting for:

    The starting location:




    A mediocre starting location. Good is the irrigated corn that can be farmed right off the bat, meaning a worker first is probably the way to go here. We also have a nice silk resource which unfortuantely is enhanced by a market, not an apothecary, but is nice nontheless. Unfortunately, the start is all forest so I need to research Mining and Bronze Working as well.

    There is also the issue of floodplains. If I settle in place, I will only gain 1, out of a potential 4 that I see in this screenshot. If I settled one south (on top of the silk) I gain two more and still keep the corn and am on a river, but lose the upper grassland mine which doesn't have a forest (strategic resource??).

    A question I have here is -- if I settle one south, on top of the silk, will my starting capital have three :commerce:? Due to the financial trait? If so, then maybe settling one south is best, but it would waste a turn and the map is generally supposed to settle you in the best average spot. But this is epic speed as well.

    Another thing I dislike about this starting location is that lake which is two tiles west of the selected settler. I don't like lakes since they can never be improved.

    So what do you guys think? My overall game plan is to use immortals for an early army against another AI and also to cottage the capital, which makes sense because it only has three visible hills (all of which are grassland). I will definitely be running a cottage economy here.

    I'm assuming the capital build should be worker first, followed by several warriors, then a worker/settler to gain a horse resource? The technology path should be AH - Mining - Bronze Working - Wheel - Pottery, but perhaps AH should be put off until after Bronze Working?

    Please help me out here, and hopefully I can compelte this game with a victory. I have lots of time this week so this game may be done within a week.

    And I can't forget the scout! The scout...hm...should he move 1 southeast onto that floodplain, then 1 southwest so he ends up two south of his original location?

    Feel free to shadow, but please do not post any spoilers in this thread.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Sleepless

    Sleepless Chieftain

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    @DMOC

    You do get the 3 coins if you settle on the silk. As for moving on to the silk I would hope for a resource in the hill and settle in place.

    After my last couple of games this start looks like a monster start to me. :) Did you see the immortal university with Sury. Mmm one plains cow lovely. Lol.
     
  3. danieldaniel

    danieldaniel Unsinnschmierer

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    I would move 1 square south and settle on the silk. You get 2? extra flood plains and don’t have to work the crappy silk resource. Your capital is going to be a bit production low, but it will make a great settle/worker spammer first and cottage capital later.

    I’d probably go for archery first and don’t bother with warriors, unless you think barbs aint going to be a problem on this map?. Then mining/BW/AH/Pottery.
    Good luck!

    Edit: Forgot The Wheel, I'd research that as soon as bronze or horses are discovered
     
  4. Olodune

    Olodune Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    Settle on the silk, move scout 1SE->1SW first though, as you suggested. I think the start looks fantastic -- try and cottage some floodplains sooner rather than later.
     
  5. Rusten

    Rusten Chieftain

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    That start looks awesome. If that's mediocre to you then you must be playing a lot of HoF :D
     
  6. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Chieftain

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    Probably want to settle 1SE where you will gain 2 more flood plains for cottages. Move scout 1SE first just to be sure. Can't ignor the floods when you are financial, they are as good as gold mines.
     
  7. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    3 commerce for the silk...this makes me want to settle in place and as for the strategic resource, it's got to be copper or iron (if one exists) and if it's iron, my capital would have already expanded its cultural borders twice so it's okay to settle one south of the starting location. Also, copper in capital locations is rarer now which further supports settling 1 south.

    I will actually get three extra floodplains, for four total (figured this out by looking carefully at the map).

    I am thinking about teching to Animal Husbandry soon, which will unlock immortals. If I can gain easy access to horses, then archers won't be necessary.

    Exactly my plan. Hopefully I can execute it well.

    Haha :lol: Well I guess I think it's mediocre because of the plains and lack of productive capacity. But we're financial and cottaging is the wayt o go.

    The problem is, though, that by doing so I gain a desert tile as well as several unforested plains tiles. Although I will be able to get rid of that stupid lake by settling southeast, I would still rather prefer settling on top of the silk.

    Thanks for your advice, everyone. Please keep them coming. I will likely start the game tonight.
     
  8. Johnpecan

    Johnpecan Chieftain

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    Settling on the silk makes the most sense to me. An extra 3 flood plains for cottagging is mmm.
     
  9. danieldaniel

    danieldaniel Unsinnschmierer

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    Then good luck with finding horses somewhere near the capital ;) I'd then research the wheel right after AH unless you can get access to horses with the river. And maybe then Mysticism if you happen to need a border pop to reach the horses.

    I don't know how barb-heavy this map will be but I guess you know you are taking some risks here :)
     
  10. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 1: 4000 BC to 2900 BC (44 turns)


    I started by moving the scout, as suggested, one southeast, then one southwest.



    Wow! More floodplains. :) This is a haven for a financial leader like myself, but will become a problem later (read on).

    I then decided to move my settler one tile south, on the silk. I made a mistake before by mentioning that one south of the starting location would net three extra floodplains -- it actually only nets two. :blush: So why did I not settle one southeast of the starting location? It would mean an extra desert and plains tile in the fat cross and the extra floodplain would have caused a -2 in health, while 3 floodplains only causes -1 health. Also, with the discovery of more floodplains down south, I decided that a second city could easily use them.

    So I settled.



    Spices! :D Another calendar resource and apothecary enhanced.

    The next turn, I started to research Mining, followed by Bronze Working. I did this because I started the capital build with a worker who would first farm the corn, then chop a little afterwards. If I had researched Animal Husbandry, the worker would have been idle a bit due to lack of AH resources.

    My scout explored south a bit and popped a hut for a map, without much useful information. I then encountered my first neighbor:



    Wang Kon. This is both good news and bad news. The good news is that he is 1) a weak AI who often performs poorly due to lack of military, and so on (to give you an idea, in my games, he and Tokugawa often compete for last place), 2) not that much of an aggressive guy, and 3) likes to found an early religion, so I can buddy up with him. He can also tech well so I can trade with him, if he lasts that long. ;)

    The bad news is that he is protective, meaning it will be harder to rush him.

    I continued exploring. Wang's stupid scout stole a nearby hut from me, but I did manage to take 2 more, netting 63 gold in total from both huts.

    Then, on turn 10, I met the second and likely last neighbor for me:



    Elizabeth! Another peaceful AI and another Financial civ! In addition, her capital location is quite...interesting (read on).

    Anyway, here is the current capital look with its borders expanded:



    Gotta love that 3 extra commerce central tile. I worked the corn while training the worker for its extra commerce, netting 12/turn for me.

    Finally, my first technology was researched.



    I continued on with Bronze Working.

    I also found another interesting resource near my capital - gems!



    :crazyeye: Doesn't this map love financial civs? Three are on the continent and I get floodplains and gems near me.

    Remember when I said Wang likes to found religions? Well, he founded Buddhism on turn 12, which meant he researched Meditation as his first technology. Good, maybe it will spread to me.

    Finally, Bronze Working was researched.



    I did not adopt slavery just yet, as it's completely unnecesary at this point. But more importantly, do I have bronze...?

    Yes! It's a bit north of me, but sadly, really close to Elizabeth. I fear she may get a city near the bronze before I can.

    Now here is where capital micromanagement becomes important. After my first worker was created, I built a warrior for obvious reasons. I worked the corn to grow to size 2 quickly then worked a grassland forest in order to have the warrior be produced at around the same time when the capital hit size 3.



    Looking back at this, I realize I just made a mistake. I should have worked the spices to garner that extra commerce. Meanwhile, my worker chopped the grassland hill south of the corn and proceeded to put a mine on it. That chop went into a worker build (I switched the queue from a warrior to a worker that turn).



    The next turn after that, I switched the worker build to a warrior build, which was timed so the warrior was completed when the city hit size 3. What do you think about that?

    (By the way, a really annoying thing that happened to me were TWO random events in a row which said that criminals have set fire to my forests. In the first happening of the event, I decided to pay the ten to keep the forest, but TWO TURNS LATER, it happened again. I decided not to pay the gold, as it could be needed in the future. I did get unhappiness in the capital but since I was building a worker, the capital wasn't growing! :goodjob:.)

    My intrepid scout also found Wang's city, or more specifically, his second, problematic city.



    The city has two archers in it. Two protective archers, none of which have a second CG or Drill promotion, thankfully. His capital is evidently nearby.

    While this sight was not so reassuring, something happend that makes me feel more confident. Hinduism was founded on turn 24, and guess who founded it? Elizabeth! Now the two AI's on my continent have opposing religions! Excellent. At the end of the round, both are cautious although Wang has -3 towards Liz and Liz has -2 toward him.

    Then, Animal Husbandry, a critical tech for Persia, was researched.



    Do we horses and are they close by? Yes on both counts! :D



    This is where I ended the round. I researched (after inheriting Agriculture and Hunting from the beginning) Mining, Bronze Working, and Animal Husbandry. What technology should I research next? The options are Mysticism (useless now from my point of view), Fishing (also useless), Archery (useless with the discovery of horses), Horseback Riding (also useless), Iron Working (not needed), Masonry (eh...maybe?), Writing, and the Wheel. I am inclined to research The Wheel in order to connect the horses with my second city. After the Wheel, I would probably research Mysticism, then Writing.

    [To be continued in next post]
     
  11. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 1 Continued

    The map explored thus far:



    With a focus up north for Elizabeth:



    As you can see, there is copper, and Elizabeth's capital is stuck on that peninsula right there, easily blockable! But I don't know if I need to do that. Blocking her may cause Wang to have a field day expanding.

    Current view of the capital, size 3 and finishing up a second worker. I will likely train one more warrior, then a settler followed by another warrior.



    Here are my proposed city sites. Note that numbers don't really mean anything, and of course, I will listen to any advice you fellows have for me.



    City one should be my first city. The rationale is that it has horses in its first ring, is near those awesome gems, and also has a river if it needs farms. The downside is that it is close to the capital (meaning overlap but also less maintenance). If I found a city there, I will likely cottage part of it that overlaps with the capital, then switch control of those cottages over to the capital when Bureaucracy hits. Sound nice?

    City two is also an alternative for grabbing horses, but I don't like it even though it has food, since it is farther away from the capital and the horses require a monument or another cultural building.

    City three could be the second city founded, and would of course, be a massive commerce center. The health, though, could be an issue, 13 flood plains equates to 5 unhealthiness, which is nooooooooo good. But remember that the Persian unique building could help in this regard. It's also close to Wang and he could, potentially, pick up the city site before I do.

    So there concludes my first round. Now for the plan. Should I rush Wang? It would be difficult considering he is protective, but my UU could help with this. He does not appear to have a strategic resource from my exploring thus far.

    Or should I expand, helped by Darius' Organized trait. I'm thinking about growing the capital to size 5, then building settler, warrior, settler, worker, immortal, immortal, settler, worker, then maybe library to get 4 solid cities up quickly. This assumes that I will be playing peacefully. To be honest, I need your advice. Peace or war?

    ------------------------------

    PS: Does anyone know how to get rid of those annoying pop up messages that are in my screenshots? I'd like to get rid of them.

    And also, how do you guys get the unit names listed in your screenshots? When I took a screenshot of Wang's city with its 2 archers, I put my mouse over the archers so the viewer could see exactly what they were, but when I pressed SHIFT + Print Screen, the text displaying the two archers (in the bottom left corner of the screen) disappeared.
     
  12. Rusten

    Rusten Chieftain

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    If you want to show information only available by hovering the mouse over it you have to press Prt. Scr. without holding shift. You'll then get a screenshot #X in your folder.
     
  13. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Gotcha, I will remember that for next round.
     
  14. Johnpecan

    Johnpecan Chieftain

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    City 1 is an obvious location for your first city. Horses + 3 grassland gems. CHA-CHING. Cities 2 and 3 are very good too. Do you plan on rushing? If so, how many cities are you going to establish before the rush?
     
  15. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I would probably go with city 1 on my previous dotmap then go with city 3, forgetting about that second horse city site until after Wang is knocked out. City 1 would be cottaged/mined while city 3 would be partially farmed/partially cottaged to make it commerce and a great person farm at the same time.

    I guess a protective civ just means I need to build more immortals.


    But does anyone disagree with my dotmap that I showed? Are there any sites that could be placed in a better location?
     
  16. ese-aSH

    ese-aSH Chieftain

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    about workers : when you plan to go for two workers that early I find it really better to grow size 2 after first worker, then build 2nd worker immediatly, chop one forest in it and whip it as soon as you can.

    in normal speed worker cost 60H, chop means 20H and whip 30H, so you just need 10H from the tiles which you basicaly get in 2 turns (supposing your working tiles 3F + 2F1H + 2F1H from capital tile).

    doing so in 15 turns (time to get worker 1) + 8 turns (time to grow size 2, put 8H on a warrior) + 3 turns (get 20H from chop and build 5H on turn 1, build 5H on turn 2, whip on turn 3) = 26 turns you get
    - 2 workers
    - size 1 city with some food (regrowth is most of the time 6 turns)
    - 1 warrior coming next turn (8H + overflow from second worker)
     
  17. Johan^^

    Johan^^ Chieftain

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    city 1 is great. So :goodjob: on that one. City 3 is very very bad for an early city. Would go for city 2. Farm the corn and whip a cultural building.

    Kill off wang asap with the UU. If he gets iron a war would be problematic, so dont delay to much
     
  18. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    Why that weird research path?? Did you not read the 500K+ score strategy thread in the article section? Getting immortals asap and then harrasing all the AI is pretty damn hot...
     
  19. BurN

    BurN Chieftain

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    Put all EP to Liz. Place one+two and rush Wang, your capital's next border pop will close your land off from lizzy. From there just focus on econ and expansion while sharing religion. Get riffles or cannons, wipe lizzy = enough land for easy win.

    I wouldn't place city 3, it'll have massive unhealthiness. I would try to divide those floods between 2-3 cities but you need more scouting for that.
     
  20. danieldaniel

    danieldaniel Unsinnschmierer

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    You might also think about settling on that copper/spices/corn location first if you can grab it before Liz does and then settle city 2 to grab the horses. City 1 is nice, but being at your back you have plenty of time to claim it. City 3 can also wait if you’re planning to rush Wang anyway. I’d try to put some more farms on the capital and do some whipping as soon as I got access to better units, or maybe whip barracks in the mean time.

    This would delay the rush, but it would prevent Liz from getting all the nice spots on your north. If what you want is to rush Wang ASAP, the settle city 1first, get the wheel and start whipping immortals.

    My research order at this point would be wheel/mysticism/pottery
     

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