1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[GS] Do Harbors strictly dominate Commerical Hubs now?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Lily_Lancer, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. darkace77450

    darkace77450 Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,079
    I'm not holding my breath for a third expansion, but if we were to get one, an economic victory and corporations are two features I'd want to see.
     
  2. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    3,547
    "Pick on" is rather melodramatic. You replied to my post, I'm responding to yours. You seem to express indignation now, but do you not find your own preceding tone to be haughty and dismissive? I don't mind. I was happy to pivot into it, as it lends to that spirit of healthy debate that you had alluded to previously, but the two reactions are a mismatch. Other people used the word "fixed", true, but you appropriated for your reply. I'm referring to the general usage.

    This thread is full of people elated that something has been done about coastal tiles. They have good reason to feel that way. The people spoke, the devs listened. Quite a coup in that regards. But that consensus does not make the changes so well-balanced that fine-tuning is unnecessary. There seems to some saying that harbors are now too good (in fact, that seems to be directly related to the question posed by the thread). Those voices of reason are so oft drowned by the boo-yahs of those who are happy to have another way to hit the jackpot. That is all regarding broad sentiments, not merely your own.

    As for objectivity, that isn't derived through consensus. Otherwise, the universe would still be orbiting 'round the earth. And FWIW (which is not much I reckon), an opinion can have a mixture of objective and subjective components, therefore describing an opinion a purely subjective is a legit thing to do.

    To reiterate the point, there are low-production tiles all over a map, not just on the coast. I gave examples before like grasses and floodplains, didn't even mention mountains. At one point, there was a dearth of features along the coasts, then we got amber, turtles, coral. If you find the water tiles within three hexes of your city center won't provide production, then assess the land tiles available. How many hills do you need to have a viable city? The discussion ultimately boils down to not tile yields like production, but needing places to drop districts. Which is why the idea of having more water districts than merely the one harbor (and, much later, the water park) is worth exploring, not dismissing.

    Yeah, I would love to see commercial hubs be the venue for bringing corporations back into the game.

    Civ VI did not benefit from having a Religious Victory condition (another aspect where Firaxis observing a vocal consensus did not serve the game well). In V, religion hit a peak during the medieval era and then gradually eased into the background. That would leave a good space for commercialism to take over and fill a similar niche.

    Anyhoooo, I would like the tier-3 building to be something other than a stock exchange. I mean, a stock exchange is essentially a one-per-civ entity. Turning it into a regional effect would make sense *if* people cared about whether they had a regional GPT bonus. No, I think a commercial building would make sense, especially if it could be tied into other late-game mechanisms (like WC, rock bands, power, that sort of thing).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2019
  3. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    758
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, but I didn't say to buff trade routes with more gold. There's plenty of others things you could do besides just raise the gold values. You could tie it in to increased visibility (maybe add a layer?), diplomatic favor generation, speed of traders... there are lots of different adjustments that could be made.

    Another way to make banks and stock markets have more use out of gold generation would be to bring back Corporations, but that's a pretty big change that would likely only come in an expansion.
     
  4. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,892
    I'm loving playing as England now.

    Moved up to immortal and wanted to try peaceful naval expansionist style on continents + islands, based on my strong results on emperor.

    Dido & Vicky seem like the best civs for this...the cheap unique harbor district is important to pulling it off. I think I am prefering Vicky for the free navy, though Dido's settler spam game is strong too.

    Unfortunately I ran into some early barb troubles, when their scout came from the opposite side I sent my warrior on turn 5. Got bumrushed by 5 horsies and had to change my whole build order in order to survive. This was a huge setback, but I pressed onward because I liked the map. And hey I thought, it's not deity so maybe I'll be fine?

    I recovered fine by the end of medieval. Thanks to harbors + free inquiry alone I was in the tech lead by that point. Securing a medieval golden age does really not seem difficult. Just don't build any harbors until ancient era is over. Build 2 harbors right at beginning of classical, send your 2 free ships in opposite directions and get all the points from discovering stuff. You shouldn't even need the two "big ones" of circumnavigation or meeting the last civ (+5 each) - I prefer to save those for Ren golden age if possible (monumentality is nice). Otherwise I just did normal stuff like killing a barb camp or two, some high value districts, etc.

    Again the AI mainly sticks to the interiors, and I'm grabbing all the coastlines/ islands. One civ did try to settle some of my islands, but with my omnipresent navy, I easily was able to just steal the settler. That type of war is fine for peaceful game, because the anger from other civs is just temporary. As long as you don't conquer cities they will forgive you when peace is declared.

    Up to 20+ cities in Industrial and my economy is skyrocketing. Normally it's hard to get that many cities without killing some AI. This way, it's easy to maintain peaceful relations and good trade route alliances.

    England is just really good at this style. Everything works together so nicely. Never wasting a hammer on ships is HUGE. This also increases your pointy stick rating i.e. prevents the AI from attacking you. Then around the time you've settled a million cities, you're building shipyards and England's boosted factories and getting so much production to keep the snowball growing (building seaports fast for example). Once you've got seaports the income is just absurd. Oh and the ridiculous amount of strategic resources you can store is just icing on the cake. You can play international arbiter....oh you're in a war with my rival? How does 100 saltpeter sound? It's no problem since I got my frigates for free...

    Has anyone noticed a food market is +10 food with England?? Neighborhoods can really increase population growth for your mid-late game, bridging the gap to seasteads. Seasteads are game changing for this play style turning even 1-hex islands into economic powerhouses. Though honestly it doesn't usually matter by that point as the game is effectively over.

    Also wanted to mention - city states can also be a HUGE boost to this strategy. If you find either one of Auckland or Nan Madol, it's essentially game over. I had Nan Madol in my previous game and pretty much just ignored culture all game. Cardiff is also super helpful though not quite as game-breakingly good as those other two. I didn't have any of these three on this map this time but it didn't matter.

    Super fun game!! Having such a blast.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    11,316
    The killer is the AI seems to always fight on this. I had to get it last night with a combo of spies and double envoys from Amani.
    You will find deity is just less land to grab and more early rushes but otherwise the same. Started last night on my own continent. To be honest though, Vicky has been like this since she got the free stuff and that’s what I would like to see removed, she is too easy. Never asked for free stuff, just a historical Vicky.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  6. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,058
    Yeah nerf coastal and England, who asked for a buff, seriously!
    Rofl
    :crazyeye:
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    11,316
    I asked for coastal cities to be buffed and gave a great argument why. even before they buffed/corrected I asked for the free units to be removed as not keeping with her. So no, no conflict but feel free to waggle your eyes.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  8. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,892
    Sailed to another easy science victory around turn 280. I'm not sure what it says about our society, when "victory" means watching the rest of the world flood, while you burn all the coal to power up your starship lasers...but hey. Social commentary aside, it was a fun game. I guess deity is next.
     
    cvb, Victoria and Ownsya like this.
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    11,316
    If it gets uncomfortable, try a large map.
     
    chazzycat likes this.

Share This Page