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"Do Not Settle Cities Near Me"

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Carazycool, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. Carazycool

    Carazycool Warlord

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    If an AI opponent says "Do not found any more cities near me," and you agree that you will not found any more cities near that person, it is my understanding that you will get a diplomatic penalty if you settle another cities that is closer to his capital than it is to your own capital.

    Do you get diplomatic penalty if you found a city that is equidistant between the two capitals? (ex. The new city spot is exactly 10 tiles from your capital, and 10 tiles from his capital)
     
  2. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I used to think it was that easy as counting hexes, but that is not correct. Better not to make the promise, but having made it, wait to settle.
     
  3. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    On that one, if you promise to stop, you'll be considered in violation if you found any more cities prior to getting the "you have kept your promise"

    That distance from both of your capitals calculation is only a trigger for them to complain and ask you to stop.
     
  4. cooldude1128

    cooldude1128 Prince

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    I find that ridiculous. They're asking you not to expand near them, but they really mean don't expand at all?
     
  5. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Prince

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    No, you actually can expand still, you just can't expand where THEY want to expand. If you go on the opposite side of your capital you should be fine, for example.
     
  6. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    The Civ V AI is intended to model a human with such bad responses he'd never get invited again. Think of the AI as a teenage boy instead of as an adult and you'll come much closer to understanding the AI behavior.
     
  7. Eklabiaan

    Eklabiaan Chieftain

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    Or a teenage girl ;)
     
  8. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    It's stupid because they will forward settle you and then complain your cities are too close to theirs
     
  9. Phukit

    Phukit Warlord

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    I have seen the AI complain about my cities 50 turns after i settled my last expo.
     
  10. krc

    krc King

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    Does that happen just after you conquer a (possibly distant) city? I have the impression that the AI looks at your cities every time the number of cities you control changes, and complains even if a city you have had forever is too close to them.
     
  11. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I have gotten the message 100+ turns after settling. I remembered because I had expected the message when I planted -- but nothing. Things were tense all game, then after different ideologies the message came. All that time, no conquering.
     
  12. Nigel_Tufnel2

    Nigel_Tufnel2 King

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    In the ICL-40 Carthage game I got a warning about tiles I bought in the first 50 turns - ON TURN 284!
     
  13. Plumfairy

    Plumfairy Prince

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    Oooh! This *finally* explains the behaviour I've seen. There have been times where I've "broken my promise" even though I settled further up my river, which was nowhere near their empire. But it was the next logical spot for them to want to settle, since they were in a corner & had nothing but wasteland between my river & their empire.

    Thanks!
     
  14. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    yeah but you might still get the "they believe we are building new cities aggressively" red flag
     
  15. meatpardle

    meatpardle Warlord

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    That one is just as frustrating. I had one recently where I built a new city on a small island to the North of my other cities - it was't any closer to any other civs and yet I suddenly suffered a sharp downturn in relationship with several of them because of expanding aggressively.

    Does the AI have a preset number of cities that it likes you to stay within depending on the era? Or could it be that as I settled on an island it was technically another continent and that AI thought it was too early to be spreading to a new one?
     
  16. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Someone posted the formula not too long ago, but no chance that I could turn it up. It does not depend on era, nor location of your expos, but I remember a couple of quirks which explains why it displays at odd times. It gets you quite a bit of hate.
    • Despite what is implied by the phrasing, the formula depends on the number of cities you control, not the number of expos you plant.
    • The formula depends on average number cities owned by the AIs. To avoid the trigger, you have to expand slower than most of the AI.
    • A consequence of the math is that if civs start losing cities, it becomes much easier to trigger it. So without being in war yourself, without any new expos, but because the average changes -- you are now expanding too aggressively!
    • If you stay at four or fewer cities, it will not trigger.
     
  17. meatpardle

    meatpardle Warlord

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    Thanks, I guess that second point makes a lot of sense. They don't like you getting too far ahead.
     
  18. joe_the_dead

    joe_the_dead Chieftain

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    Don't settle near me? I don't care! Two games in a row now where the AI settled it's second City 4 Tiles from my Capital and more than 14 from their own Cap. First Pedro did it, then Oda ... i hate them!

    :lol:
     
  19. meatpardle

    meatpardle Warlord

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    Is the AI smart enough to use city placement to prevent your expansion, or is it just really bad at placing cities?
     
  20. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Just out of curiosity, how much did you wander your starting settlers in those two games?

    No, the AI does not deliberately block you, that just happens because have more settlers than you, and that they blindly follow the fertility algorithm, and it happens that the land near you is better than the land near them. Later in the game, one AI or other will expand to fill all available spots, as they don't know it is better just to stop. So, between these two things, the AI is really bad at placing cities as compared to a human player. Also, the AI does not plan ahead for the next expo and does not consider really consider strategic defensibility.

    Here is what I think is a good example: Your first build settler, and 3 highlighted spots light all within one hex of each other, in the vicinity of where you were planning! Great, that confirms what you all already know, that the spot is good! Think about how you would plant and what the AI would do in the same situation. The AI would pick one of the three, the human probably picks a hex in the middle of the three. Who settled better?
     

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