Do Palastinians get the vote?

[Sims2789]

i have heard people say otherwise, though. however, i do believe that an Israeli citizen of Palestinean blood does get to vote. soil means more than blood(at least in my country). people need to realize the difference between nationality(like American, Canadian, ect.) and ethnicity(German, Scotish, ect.). However, most antions are mmostly made up of their native population, like how mostly Germans live in Germany. but that gives the people who are of German blood to discriminate against, lets say, German citizens of Turkish blood.

 

[Cactus_Jack]

Originally posted by Speedo
Irsael was created for jews to have their own state and govern themselves. I don't think they're going to give that up- especially since many of the people in question would like nothing better than to see the jews "driven into the sea." I have a feeling jews would say democracy be damned, and in their shoes I would agree.

Please dont use the holocuast as a excuse for the actions of Isreal. Your basicly indirectly implying that all Arabs want to do is wipe all the jews out. If you are igorant about something its better not to say anything. The Arabs where driven out there homes, and the palestineans are living in a apartheid type system. If Isreal carry on acting like they do they may get driven into the sea one day, but as far as i am aware the white western nations where aways a lot more anti semitic than any arab nation was. Isreal is provoking the palestineans. Also if a white nation wanted a nation for itselt and started to drive all the black arabs other races out ect.. people would call that racist. Why is what Isreal doing any diffrent. If the holocuast is anything to do with Isreal take a chunk out of Germany not the middle east.

 

[Speedo]

Your basicly indirectly implying that all Arabs want to do is wipe all the jews out.

So you deny that there have been multiple wars against Israel, with that as there stated purpose? You deny all the statements by arabs that there will only be "peace" when Israel doesn't exist?

 

[Sims2789]

All Arabs don't want to wipe out Israel, but my guess is that most anti-Semites these days live in the Middle-East. however, you can't say, "All of Race x want to wipe out Country y."

 

[Sims2789]

Being born in Israel does not make you an Israeli citizen. You are an Israeli only if you are born to Israeli parents. Thus, the children of illegal immigrants aren't citizens.

by Israeli, do you mean the Israeli nationality or the Israeli race?refer to my German analogy if you don't understand my question(at the top of this page). for now on so it's not so confusing, we should refer to people who are Israeli by blood as "of Israeli blood" and people who are Israeli citizens(even people of Palestinean blood) should be refered to as "Israeli nationals"

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

On the other hand, outright war with the Arab states which would also cause the fall of Israel.
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Oh, right, like it did the 5 or so other times

And would you say the outcome of those five wars was never in doubt? Israel is not invincible. It's not even very defensible.

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
On the other hand, outright war with the Arab states which would also cause the fall of Israel.
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Oh, right, like it did the 5 or so other times

And would you say the outcome of those five wars was never in doubt? Israel is not invincible. It's not even very defensible.

...all the more reason the '67 borders aren't good, correct?

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by Cactus_Jack

The Arabs where driven out there homes

When? A majority of sources have shown that the Jews bought land from Ottoman landholders (who had basically enthralled the "Palestinian" populations). All transactions were legal under Ottoman law, just as the home you live in was purchased legally (I presume). Should you be kicked out? Should you be slandered? Should you be blown up? You made no mistake, and neither did the Zionists who bought land with money they had saved up while surviving pograms, massacres, and holocausts.

If anti-Semitism had never existed, would modern day Israel? It's your ilk that caused its creation, because you guys treated us so unfairly. Pity state or not...

 

[Capulet]

Originally posted by Benderino


When? A majority of sources have shown that the Jews bought land from Ottoman landholders (who had basically enthralled the "Palestinian" populations). All transactions were legal under Ottoman law, just as the home you live in was purchased legally (I presume). Should you be kicked out? Should you be slandered? Should you be blown up? You made no mistake, and neither did the Zionists who bought land with money they had saved up while surviving pograms, massacres, and holocausts.

If anti-Semitism had never existed, would modern day Israel? It's your ilk that caused its creation, because you guys treated us so unfairly. Pity state or not...

When?
Tantura
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Haifa/al-Tantura/Story560.html

Deir Yassin
http://netfinity2.palestineremembered.com/Jerusalem/Dayr-Yasin/Story192.html

Finally, read this http://www.palestineremembered.com/...ory562.html#Why Palestinians Left Their Homes

Quotes by Israel's founder David Ben-Gurion:
"I support compulsory [Palestinian Arab population] transfer. I do not see in it anything immoral."

"The transfer of Arabs is easier than the transfer of any other [people]. There are Arabs states around . . . And it is clear that if the [Palestinian] Arabs are transferred this would improve their situation and not the opposite."

"The compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the first and second Temples. . . We are given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imaginings. This is more than a state, government and sovereignty----this is national consolidation in a free homeland."

"the compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the projected Jewish state . . . . we have to stick to this conclusion the same way we grabbed at the Zionism itself."

Israel has a reputation of ethnic cleansing

 

[Leha]

Originally posted by Musa

When?
Tantura
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Haifa/al-Tantura/Story560.html

Deir Yassin
http://netfinity2.palestineremembered.com/Jerusalem/Dayr-Yasin/Story192.html

Finally, read this http://www.palestineremembered.com/...ory562.html#Why Palestinians Left Their Homes

Quotes by Israel's founder David Ben-Gurion:
"I support compulsory [Palestinian Arab population] transfer. I do not see in it anything immoral."

"The transfer of Arabs is easier than the transfer of any other [people]. There are Arabs states around . . . And it is clear that if the [Palestinian] Arabs are transferred this would improve their situation and not the opposite."

"The compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the first and second Temples. . . We are given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imaginings. This is more than a state, government and sovereignty----this is national consolidation in a free homeland."

"the compulsory transfer of the [Palestinian] Arabs from the valleys of the projected Jewish state . . . . we have to stick to this conclusion the same way we grabbed at the Zionism itself."

Israel has a reputation of ethnic cleansing

WOW , your sources are great !!
I can post here several right-wing Israeli sites that will prove that all palestinians are murderers . You want this ?

Also , when you quote something , try to show it with context and not out of it .

 

[h4ppy]

But the quotes speak for themselves, even if the site is a biased piece of trash. (not that palestineremembered is)

 

[Leha]

Originally posted by h4ppy
But the quotes speak for themselves, even if the site is a biased piece of trash. (not that palestineremembered is)

I can turn good-natured qoute into slogan of racism if I tear it out of context . And vice versa .

 

[r4ge]

One should be very careful when using this word (Anti-semitism). This would imply that one is agains the Jewish race, however, in reality Anti-Semitism is confined to those who have always been against the jews no matter what they have done. In other words an antisemitist can not be confused with those who despise the actions taken by a countrie's PM or president.
Let me use one example. In Europe, 25 years ago (prox), the majority of the countries and it's people praised and loved Israel for it's achievements. People commented: "They made a dessert into garden." Clearly Israel, who at it's birth was thought to only survive 3 weeks by many predominant politicians had accomplished alot.
We move into the 21st century. And what do we see? The same countries who sympathised and praised Israel, are now silently but clearly opposed to it's actions. And no this is not because france has 2 million muslims or Germany has 3 million turks living in them. These countries realise that the Hollaucust can not be an excuse for Israels actions. However you must not confuse this. Europeans are not anti-semits they are just criticizing actions which under any objective eye would seem unwise. This does not mean that Euorpe supports suicide bombings, knowing that similarily to Israeli actions they do not bring the conflict any closer to an end.

 

[Leha]

Originally posted by r4ge
One should be very careful when using this word (Anti-semitism). This would imply that one is agains the Jewish race, however, in reality Anti-Semitism is confined to those who have always been against the jews no matter what they have done. In other words an antisemitist can not be confused with those who despise the actions taken by a countrie's PM or president.
Let me use one example. In Europe, 25 years ago (prox), the majority of the countries and it's people praised and loved Israel for it's achievements. People commented: "They made a dessert into garden." Clearly Israel, who at it's birth was thought to only survive 3 weeks by many predominant politicians had accomplished alot.
We move into the 21st century. And what do we see? The same countries who sympathised and praised Israel, are now silently but clearly opposed to it's actions. And no this is not because france has 2 million muslims or Germany has 3 million turks living in them. These countries realise that the Hollaucust can not be an excuse for Israels actions. However you must not confuse this. Europeans are not anti-semits they are just criticizing actions which under any objective eye would seem unwise. This does not mean that Euorpe supports suicide bombings, knowing that similarily to Israeli actions they do not bring the conflict any closer to an end.

And why , exactly , then UN concealed report stating that number of anti-semitism acts has grown immensely in last years in Europe and mostly muslim population is responsible ?

 

[r4ge]

Unfortunately, as you have seen, In France especialy there have been attacks targeted on jewish run buildings. 1 synagogue was burnt down, a couple of schools have been destroyed or vandalized. I remember they did highlight what you just mentioned about this concealed report. Offcorse they have more information that I have just listed
The question however is, would you consider that an act of anti - semetism or an act to gain attention for the palestinian cause. You may categorize them in the same group. However it would be a mistake to.
The fact is, it is much easier to those who have to publish such reports to categorize it as anti - semetism since few would argue against this. Those who do are then labled as anti-semits and thats how the game is played.

 

[delsully]

FYI, many Arabs are Semites.

 

[Capulet]

Originally posted by leha


WOW , your sources are great !!
I can post here several right-wing Israeli sites that will prove that all palestinians are murderers . You want this ?

Also , when you quote something , try to show it with context and not out of it .

Its better to here from the opressed, rather than the oppressor
and the Israelis are definantly not the opressed
Heres another site, written by Zionists :O who agree with me:

http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/dy/

read the bottom too: "The material at this site is not ‘Arab propaganda.’ It was researched and written by Zionists who are concerned about the moral image of our state. We cannot bring back the dead. We can tell the truth, offer our sincere apologies, and learn the lesson of Deir Yassin and teach it to our children. "

"There are several Deir Yassin memorial Web sites by Palestinian organizations and Arabs. This is only such site assembled by an Israeli and a Zionist, and to my knowledge it is the most comprehensive and most thoroughly researched one. This site includes following materials, some of which are original articles, others are translations appearing for the first time"

"It is long past time for Israeli Zionists, like myself, to apologize. The Israeli government has never apologized for the massacre of Deir Yassin, though the Jewish Agency apologized to King Abdullah in April 1948. The perpetrators of the massacre at Deir Yassin were never punished, though there was a great hue and cry at the time. Victims were never offered compensation. Therefore, and as long as this is true, the massacre at Deir Yassin has become the dubious moral property of all Zionists. We cannot sit back and say 'this was the fault of the revisionists.' The massacre at Deir Yassin may have set the pattern for much similar behavior throughout the War of Independence. A similar massacre, by dissident troops incorporated in the IDF, occurred later at Al-Dawayima, near Hebron. Other massacres by the IDF are well documented as well. If we Israelis believe that we are a moral society, then we owe it to ourselves to face the past."

The victims of Deir Yassin are just as credible as the victims of Auchwitz were. The Nazis denied Auchwitz just like the Israelis denied Deir Yassin.

 

[Capulet]

Originally posted by leha


And why , exactly , then UN concealed report stating that number of anti-semitism acts has grown immensely in last years in Europe and mostly muslim population is responsible ?

Since 9/11 theres been attacks on Muslim Arabs in America, so you could say that whoever attacked them were Anti-Semites just as you would say that people who hurt Jews are anti-semites. The Israelis/Jews have to realize that they aren't the only oppressed people in the world.

 

[andrewgprv]

Originally posted by Benderino


When? A majority of sources have shown that the Jews bought land from Ottoman landholders (who had basically enthralled the "Palestinian" populations). All transactions were legal under Ottoman law, just as the home you live in was purchased legally (I presume). Should you be kicked out? Should you be slandered? Should you be blown up? You made no mistake, and neither did the Zionists who bought land with money they had saved up while surviving pograms, massacres, and holocausts.

No I shouldn't be kicked out of my home, but I shouldn't be able to buy up real estate in Idaho and then declare it my own nation.

No Israelis have answered my questions yet, do you have something to hide?

 

[Capulet]

Originally posted by andrewgprv


No I shouldn't be kicked out of my home, but I shouldn't be able to buy up real estate in Idaho and then declare it my own nation.

No Israelis have answered my questions yet, do you have something to hide?

You're right on the dot. The Zionists didn't buy all of Palestine, so why should they get all of it and kick its former inhabitants out of it? The Palestinian's homeland is in Palestine because they were born in Palestine, just like my homeland is America because I was born in America.