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Do Palastinians get the vote?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by zulu9812, Jan 11, 2004.

  1. Leha

    Leha ooseepoosee

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    First , Israelis/Jews , are not opressors , nor oppressed either .
    Second , read definition of anti-semitism somewhere , and then , if you still can't see difference , then I can't help you . :(
     
  2. Zeekater

    Zeekater hasn't been using drugs

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    Definition of anti-semetism, you hate jews, no matter what, like other sorts of racism.
    Musa is, I believe, stating that most jews actually don't know what antisemitism is, saying that everything against jews or israel is antisemitism.
    Just like a negro can call me 'white trash', but I can't shout back 'stupid black'
     
  3. r4ge

    r4ge Chieftain

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    I thought it was me trying to state that? :rolleyes:
    Oh well..
     
  4. Benderino

    Benderino Loyal American Democrat

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    OBJECTIVE?? What in history has given Europeans the right to call themselves objective when it comes to anything Jewish?
     
  5. phoenix_night

    phoenix_night Deity

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    What? Are you trying to claim that past experiences of the Jewish people invalidate any opinions any modern day Europeans may have on the subject?
     
  6. zulu9812

    zulu9812 The Newbie Nightmare

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    Benderino, that was a silly remark to make. I am European. Am I unqualified to state my view on Israel because of all the nasty things my grandparents didn't do to the Jews?
     
  7. Paalikles

    Paalikles Emperor

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    Anti-semittism has been a factor in many countries - not just in Europe.
    One has to differensiate between those who are and those who are not - putting everyone into the same booth is not a good idea.

    EDIT:
    I am Norwegian, and I cannot take a defensive stance for either side of the conflict. For me it has to be a case by case issue, however, I cannot sympatize with the use of brute force by the Israelians, and with the suicide bombers. That being said - I have a feeling much would have turned out differently if Rabin hadnt been killed
     
  8. Benderino

    Benderino Loyal American Democrat

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    You are correct. I retract my heinous statement. It was merely a knee-jerk reaction. But I still don't see how "Europe" can be called objective, if as you say, we cannot stereotype. If we follow your rules, we cannot label Europe as anything.

    But calling Europe objective is like called America objective. Neither is the case, IMHO.
     
  9. r4ge

    r4ge Chieftain

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    Benderino you are implying that we European never gave a damn and always hated the Jewish.
    I suggest you to read my previous post commenting on how Europeans loved** Israel and what it had achieved.
    It is true that History is stained with blood, often that of Jewish people in Europe, from Nazi persecution to the period of the inquisition. However I just want to note that in the latter Muslims were also a target. It's our blood filthy history which makes us objective apart from other reasons. If thats what you wanted to hear.

    ***** EDIT*******
    My bad.............You were reading the right post
    -_.::.C°S°
     
  10. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    Sure, the Europeans made Jews flee Europe.

    Let's remember which lady in green turned them around at Ellis Island.
     
  11. Desmond Hawkins

    Desmond Hawkins Deity

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    Israeli Arabs can vote if they are citizens. 15-20 percent of Israel's population is "Israeli Arab" and can indeed vote. The rest of the palestinians don't live in Israel, but rather in the West Bank, Gaza, or concentration camps in Syria/Lebanon, because their "Arab brothers" couldn't give a damn about them.
     
  12. Desmond Hawkins

    Desmond Hawkins Deity

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    I don't understand people's level of ignorance about Israelis.

    The bulk of the palestinians that lived in Palestine pre-1948 were actually immigrants TO Palestine that were riding the recent wave of Jewish immigration, as they thought it would bring them economic benefits. The pre-war zionist settlers BOUGHT pieces of land from the Turks and Arabs for exorbinant prices, and the land was mostly just swamp. The Muslims figured they would take their money than kill them. So when they discovered raiding kibbutzes did not work very well, they just went and said the Jews stole their land, right after they SOLD the land to the Jews.

    Of course their comes the question about the 1948 war, but why shouldn't regions of Palestine that are virtually wholly Jewish, declare their independence? This is what they did, and they controlled merely a small strip of land from Tel Aviv to Haifa, with smatterings of settlements around the territory. Most Arabs were left on Arab land in independence, but of course the Arab nations had to have a pissing contest over "who could kill the most Jews". Didn't work, but that was the plan. The Israelis offered citizenship and friendship to any local Arab who was willing to stay and live in peace. The Arabs (Syria, Jordan, Egypt)however pressured all the local Arabs to "temporarily" leave the land for the killing of the Jews, and when they didn't it was under threat of massacre by the Arab armies that they left their homes. Ultimately, the Israelis only moved into Arab areas of Haifa, and into Jaffa, after the Arabs left in their own free will to either escape Arab massacre, or the predicted murdering by the Jews, which never happened (they figured that the Jews wanted to do all the same terrible things to them, that they wanted to do to the Jews.

    When the dust settled and Israel had multiplied their territory, by taking land abandoned by Arabs, or never used at all (much of the Negev), there was still land for the local Palestinians, but the surrounding Arab nations saw it prudent to annex or occupy the land, and put the Palestinians in concentration camps. Meanwhile the Arabs that stayed at home were granted Israeli citizenship, and all the advantages of being Israeli. The Palestinians who were lied to by their "Arab brothers" were then treated as sub-human, and marginilized by those same "brothers".

    It is for the fact that the Palestinians are still alive, and the fact that the Jews would have been massacred had they lost, but showed mercy on the Palestinians, that I have to align myself as pro-Israeli in most affairs.
     
  13. Capulet

    Capulet RESTART

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    Most of Palestine didn't have a "Jewish majority' though some of it did. The U.N. gave Israelis more land than they needed, when the Palestinian over all still had the majority population. Also, I don't think the Arab countries attacked Israel to see "who could get kill the most Jews." They attacked because they were angry about an agreement they were forced into and an agreement that was not fair to the majority Palestinians. You also said: "The Muslims figured they would take their money than kill them." Where the hell is the proof for such a stupid statement? Do you have any record of this at all? No matter what you say, there were massacres (on both side) so if the Arabs don't deny what happened, why do the Israelis? Also, what the hell are you talking about when you said that the other Arab countries put the Palestinians into concentration camps? I think that you've obviously got your history confused man.
     
  14. Capulet

    Capulet RESTART

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    Hey, the Palestinians are under intense scrutiny everyday, with or without suicide bombings. Their living conditions are horrible, and the Israelis don't seem to be stopping. What is your definition of opressed? The Palestinians definantly don't compare to the living standards of Israelis. The Israeli army is the one occupying Palestine, not the other way around, so they are the oppressor and occupier.
     
  15. Leha

    Leha ooseepoosee

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    I posted about this a million times , I'll post once agaitn , for you ;)

    1. Palestinians are free to get the **** to every other arab country if they don't want live peacefully with jews

    2. If they do want live peacefully with jews , they should stop to blow our kids and women in our streets

    3. If they want to improve their conditions , they should ask mister Arafat to bring back all the millions he stole and they should stop spending millions on explosives .

    My definition of oppressed is sitting in Krakov ghetto and being executed for asking for negotiations . There is no state Palestine , so IDF isn't occupying anything .
     
  16. Leha

    Leha ooseepoosee

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    Aha , they attacked Israel 4 times , because they were angry .
    Well , I think after the first attack Israel has a right to be angry too , so all we do is justified .:)
     
  17. Pontiuth Pilate

    Pontiuth Pilate Republican Jesus!

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    Anti-semitism does not mean hatred of Jews.

    I am a Jew, and I am a Semite. But they are not the same thing. A girl I know has parents who immigrated here from Bangladesh and are devout Muslims. She is also a Semite.

    If you mean Jew-hater, say so. But unless you have a particular loathing for everyone born between Casablanca and New Delhi, you are not an anti-Semite.

    As for the whole 1948 question: the state of Israel has about as much legitimacy as the state of Texas. Think about it. The Americans never had a claim to that land. They just wanted it because it looked valuable. So Sam Houston and his followers trekked over the border and signed "agreements" with the Mexican government to buy land. Maybe some Americans wanted to be part of Mexico, but you can bet the vast majority still thought of themselves as Americans. They didn't convert to Catholocism, they didn't learn Spanish, and they didn't free their slaves. Then when they had accumulated enough power, land, and Mexican allies, they "declared independence", knowing that their powerful foreign ally [Washington] would protect them from the barbarian Mexicans.

    Sounds familiar!
     
  18. andrewgprv

    andrewgprv Second Class Citizen

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    Hey Leha care to answer this?
     
  19. Leha

    Leha ooseepoosee

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    Dear PP .

    You know very well , that anti-semitism is used when we talk about hatered to jews . I know that jews are not only semites but it has nothing to do with word , that describes something else , although it has this "semit" part . I tried anti-semitism on my skin in Russia and other "semites" were studying in best USSR universities , lived in "Inturist' ( very good) hotels , and had not even known what anti-semitism is .

    And your Texas example is not good , sorry .
    Americans never lived there before .
    Israelites had here (in Israel ) a kingdom before .
     
  20. Leha

    Leha ooseepoosee

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    Frankly , I'm not competent in sitizenship laws , but this article seems to me a complete B-S , sorry if I'm wrong .
    Many of my friends are not jews , but they have Israeli sitizenship and , as far as I know , they have exactly the same rights as I have , and they serve in IDF . Many arabs , christian and muslim , have Israeli sitizenship , they build wherever they want , and they have the same rights as I have .

    But there are lands where noone can build , because they belong to state .

    "Ezrahut" is sitizenship and I repeat , Israeli sitizen has ALL rights no matter what nationality he is .
     

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