Do people use slavery

[Liquidated]

Originally Posted by S.ilver
Heh... The Globe Theatre is SO evil if you've got it in a super high food city. Said city will have NO unhappy faces ever, so you can whip until you run out of population, and they won't care.

Oh that's sweet

ROFL well silver deserves a special mention on his adroit handling of the whip and the I WANT YOU posters.

silver and I were the last idiots standing in a culture gone domination SG were mass people dropped out leaving us two to hold the bag

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140618

entertaining read if only for silver's warmongering.

that sg more than anything else I've seen, examplifies the use of the whip and chain.

silver still has nightmares about those elephants

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[Nials]

I stay in Slavery through a large part of the game and eventually switch to Emancipation.

I always pop rush Granaries and Lighthouses, possibly other basic improvements where appropriate, eg. several food resources.

 

[Bezhukov]

The math on slavery is crazy. If the food box takes 22 food to fill, and slavery gives 30 hammers per pop, then slavery is like trading food for 1.5 hammers. With a granary, the box takes half as much food to fill, so then you can trade food for 3 hammers. So a grass pig is worth 18 hammers/turn under slavery.

 

[loraque]

It is possible to get too attached to the whip.

 

[fuji]

I do it sometimes, to be sure i got wonders, not for normal things...

 

[TCGTRF]

That should be, In Civ4, there's no corruption displayed.

There is corruption in the form on shield production loss. It is not until Communism that corruption is distributed equally. I am unsure about trade. Cash from towns may not be corrupted.

You mean Civ3, right? There are no shields in Civ4, and the sort of things that caused corruption in Civ3 make your outgo of gold/turn go up rather than loss of hammers.

If it's any different than this, this is the first I've ever heard of it. It should be easily provable by going to your furthest city from your capital, counting the hammers in the worked tiles, then comparing them with what you're actually using to build each turn.

Tom

 

[atreas]

Just one very simple question: without slavery, how can you ever build anything on a "former jungle" site? These sites are pure grasslands with some rivers and food resourses (ideal for cottages) but you usually are lucky if you see one-two hammers. How will you build the library, university, market, bank, courthouse, etc, unless you are ready to trade your only asset (food)?

And don't tell me about Universal Suffrage, because 1) it's only available early if you have Pyramids, 2) in the early days it's more economical to use food instead of badly needed gold (usually you don't have gold), and 3) even with Pyramids, Representation is even better, due to the happiness+science effect.

Slavery is in many cases "one way road".

 

[Tan]

I would try using Hereditary Rule + Slavery if they get too pissed off of you killing the population. You should have enough military units to cancel out the hate.

I actually never thought of this tactic.

Thank you

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I almost never do, unless under attack and needing units now! I was thinking today that it may be a leak in my game- if a library is going to take me 19 turns, it may be better to lose a pop and get it now. Well before those 19 turns are up I'll have replenished my population and lost the unhappiness penalty. Perhaps this would be enough to let me finally crack monarchy. Thoughts?

I use and abuse slavery like it's going out of style. Although I admit that it's especially useful when under attack, to pump out lots of units, it can also be useful for rushing certain vital improvements. Also, unlike C3, you can rush wonders.

 

[JavalTigar]

if you have any doubts of the power of slavery refer to the following:

http://sirian.warpcore.org/civ4/dawn.html

Sirian is the Slave Master!!

I never used it before either but his writing has made a definite impact on my playing. Got me out of Noble, after a few more runs I might be ready for Monarch

 

[Tan]

I use and abuse slavery like it's going out of style.

Although I admit that it's especially useful when under attack, to pump out lots of units

Yup, thats true. But what about Drafting. I havn't ever used that.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Yup, thats true. But what about Drafting. I havn't ever used that.

I first used it in "Hatty's Heiroglyphics" - converting food to units in the blink of an eye is a lovely option when your military budget has perhaps, just perhaps mind you, been lacking.

I'm almost eager to try the high food, barracks, globe theater, draft combo. You don't start with as many experience points as you otherwise might, but one unit per turn is pretty nice power output.

 

[Crighton]

It is with a solemn and heavy heart that I openly admit I had not thought using the Globe Thearte that way before reading it above.

I feel shamed.

I will now whip those ungrateful curs until I erase my shame.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Yup, thats true. But what about Drafting. I havn't ever used that.

Drafting is pretty good too. It's like the modern version of slavery in that you can rush units when under overwhelming threat, but without downgrading to an older civic.

 

[Drofd]

Slavery is free and if u have a spiritual civ theres no downside

 

[Vatec]

I use Slavery for almost the entire game.

1. It's a great way to deal with unhappiness. Just build something that requires 2 population. The first death removes the original angry citizen and the second death removes the new one generated by the whip.

2. It's the perfect way to deal with unhappy people in starving, recently-conquered cities. They're going to die anyway. Might as well die building a Theatre that will make the survivors happy ;^)

3. It's cheap and none of the other civics in this branch are particularly compelling. Who cares about worker speed? Build enough workers and this is totally irrelevant. That leaves caste system and emancipation, both of which are useful, even necessary, for specific strategies, but not necessary for my more generic "out-tech and out-maneuver" strategy. NOTE: I haven't played above Monarch, but up to that level I get by just fine with the never-ending slavery civic.... If caste system allowed unlimited engineers (in addition to scientists), I might lean more towards it. But as it stands, I usually find it more efficient to have huge cities with lots of worked tiles rather than specialists. Possession of the pyramids (with access to representation and its nice specialist beaker bonus) would obviously change that.

4. It gives great tactical flexibility. If you're in a building phase and suddenly someone decides you're just weak enough to pick a fight with, you can very quickly add combat troops to your queues, whip them, and be ready to fight. If you're in any other civic than slavery, you'll either need universal suffrage or a turn of anarchy. That doesn't help when the enemy is one turn away from attacking. And yes, there are plenty of other ways to deal with aggression, ranging from cash upgrades of obsolete units, through diplomacy, all the way to having enough units not to appear weak. But since slavery gives you the option and the opportunity cost is negligible, why not make use of it?

 

[BeefontheBone]

without slavery, how can you ever build anything on a "former jungle" site?

Well, workshops, especially after guilds - 's like a hill then The cottages will eventually produce a hammer with whatever that govt civic is (of course, the pyramids will make it available much earlier). Oh, and priests/engineers. slavery is great value though with enough happiness, plus it's cheaper to run than no civic.

 

[ownedbyakorat]

All unhappy citizens are fodder for the slave pits. I ask myself... would I rather have this unhappy citizen, or would I rather have a courthouse?

 

[Dueck]

And don't forget that unhappiness from whipping doesn't stack, only the time needed to get rid of the unhappiness

Just to clarify, the unhappiness does stack, in this way:
1st whip = +1 unhappy for 15 turns (epic)
2nd whip = +1 unhappy for 27 turns
3rd whip = +1 unhappy for 39 turns (or so)

This may or may not alleviate some incomprehension...

 

[Dueck]

All unhappy citizens are fodder for the slave pits. I ask myself... would I rather have this unhappy citizen, or would I rather have a courthouse?

QFT

Slavery's more useful even than a production possibility in a city with some ridiculous food. For example...
- If you can rush a granary with slavery, by allowing double-growth speed 20 turns earlier, you will end up with more population faster, anyway.
- If you can use slavery to rush a temple or theatre in an unhappy city (hopefully spending more than 1 citizen doing so), you aren't even costing yourself anything, unless you had a resource you could have hooked up fast.
- In a city with decent commerce, but no library, by having a library 20 turns or so sooner, you're getting the benefit of that extra research earlier, even though you're missing out on one single citizen until your city grows again... it makes up in the end.

The bonus of rushing is twofold: you get the benefits NOW, and you construct something else in the time you would still be constructing the first thing.