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Do players regard France's new UA as underwhelming

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Astennu, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. Astennu

    Astennu Warlord

    Oct 4, 2013
    To expand on my point in my introduction post below, I would like to aim for a cultural victory with France, however I'm having concerns that their UA is a bit weak.

    It only applies to their capital, and tourism only has limited uses in boosting other areas besides Culture. It seems that the new UA has drastically reduced France's versatility to pursue multiple victory conditions. Of course I'll be focusing solely on CV, but having that extra boost overall would be nice.

    Can anyone relate their experience using France recently?
  2. FeiLing

    FeiLing Deity

    Jan 9, 2012
    I certainly hate it.
    On higher difficulties you won't get more than 2-3 wonders in Paris, so it's useless.
    It's useless in the first place for any games but Culture Victories... the only one this is competing with is the Mongols ;)

    it's especially painful as France went from the most versatile civ in the game to the least versatile.

    Hint: Imho all they'd need to do is giving Paris +2 Culture per turn before discovering Steam Power (same as previously, but limited to Paris instead of all cities) [not even sure if it has to go with steam power, could as well just stay all game too].
  3. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Sep 14, 2013
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    You can win with France in many different ways, Musketeers can severely injure musketmen. Chateau's aren't bad for gold either which turns into gold for CSs.
  4. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Mar 17, 2008
    World wonders isn't the only source of theming bonuses for Paris; you can also build two national wonders there along with a Museum.

    Also, while France has a minor edge for Cultural via UA; it's UB gives it a minor edge towards both Diplomatic and Space race victory (Freedom version) via more gold.
  5. holywar

    holywar Chieftain

    Sep 21, 2013
    Could be better, but overall I like it.
  6. Crafty Bison

    Crafty Bison King

    Jun 26, 2012
    Ya the France UA sucks now; the old civ was much better. As an Englishman, I am exceedingly happy about this :).
  7. ahawk

    ahawk King

    Aug 22, 2011
    I agree with FeiLing fully.

    France used to have +2 culture in every city from the very first turn. That would help pick-up early SP's quickly. More importantly, it'd really help expand borders quickly.

    Now, no matter what difficulty level, France starts slower (no +2 culture per city anymore, need to get Chateau's up to get culture in any unique way, etc.). Worse, at higher levels, as FeiLing points out, you probably will struggle to get enough wonders up in Paris to really use the UA.

    And I agree with the Hint part of the quote: at least give culture in the capitol until Steam power. I mean, even Japan now can get earlier culture (via UA and fishing boats).
  8. GoStu

    GoStu King

    Sep 16, 2013
    I'm fine with the Chateau replacing the +2 Culture per city until Steam Power, as I think it's overall an improvement and it's neat to dot the countryside with Chateaus. Nice boost to Tourism, having all those nice culture and gold tiles to use with Hotels and Airports.

    The UA is pretty lousy in my opinion. If it applied to every city, so all the museums could enjoy nice Theme bonuses it'd be a bit better, but frankly I think it needs an entirely new idea. I get that they're set up for Culture / War, but their War aspect has been lost with the loss of the foreign legion. Maybe they need to tie Culture back to war or science somehow.
  9. Alziel

    Alziel Warlord

    Nov 20, 2010
    London, UK
    Probably tougher on higher difficulty levels, but even then you will at least always be able to build Oxford University, Hermitage and a Museum in the capital even if you don't get anything else and you should have a fair chance of getting at least one of the Theming Wonders in the capital as well even on Deity.

    However, it's still not the best UA out there but as others often point out a Civ is not all about it's UA.

    France's new strength lies in the Chateau IMO. It's an incredibly powerful improvement that just gets better as the game goes on. This and the Musketeer are the meat on the bones of France. I think the package as a whole is OK as it is but I wouldn't object to a slight buff to the UA (maybe a bonus to Tourism for all great works in the capital?)
  10. Aenthin

    Aenthin Warlord

    Oct 26, 2013
    Doesn't tourism increase science output from influenced trading partners, increase spy efficiency on influenced rivals and reduce/eliminate unrest and population loss from influenced conquered cities? Don't really see how that's limited.
  11. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

    Dec 27, 2006
    Inside an Ikanda.
    I think anyone who doesn't built all of the themeing wonders in a single city is bit of a fool... really.. I mean take the example of Lourve.

    Base +4 Themeing bonus from matching it up
    +4 from being France (now a total of +8)
    Aestethics finisher brings it to a total of (+16)

    That's more than Eiffel Tower.
  12. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

    May 10, 2012
    Technically, the old UA is still in place and even got stronger. By building enough chateau's one can surpass +2 cpt. Besides, this one will actually last well after steam power. Of course, not getting culture instantly results in a slightly different experience, but i wouldn't go as far as saying it's underwhelming. Tons of "free" culture (later tourism) and a very, very good melee unit.
  13. pvtjava

    pvtjava The Grey Cat

    May 26, 2010
    Virginia, USA
    I like playing as France. I usually play on Prince though, where wonder building is easy. You can be rockin @ 50-60 Tourism before any of the late-game modifiers. I also got my only pre T300 victory on diety with them. (cheap diplo, but hey, it was diety)
  14. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

    Mar 19, 2002
    Belgrade, Serbia
    Unfortunately, it's not there in the early game where is mattered the most.

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