Do Rules About Not Advocating Violence Not Apply Anymore?

[Commodore]

Simple question. There is an entire thread right now where a bunch of posters are advocating for political violence and moderators are doing nothing about it. The thread remains open, and not a single poster has been infracted for numerous and blatant violations of forum rules.

Not to mention, this advocacy of political violence has been going on sporadically for a few months now and the moderators continue to just let it happen. So I have to ask: Are the moderators for OT just asleep at the wheel, or are you just not enforcing the rules anymore? I mean, it's not like the posts and threads in question could be misinterpreted. They are straight up, in no uncertain terms, advocating for violence against political opponents.

I get that this is a very turbulent time politically, but that should mean the rules about advocating for violence should be even more strictly enforced, not slacked on entirely. The staff claims one of their goals is to create a family-friendly site; well can you explain to me what's family-friendly about advocating political violence?

Also, moderators (specifically OT moderators), take another look at these rules and tell me how the threads and posts I'm referring to (and I know you know which ones I'm talking about) aren't in violation of the following?

Advocating cruelty, violence, hateful or illegal actions may well fall under the category of inappropriate content and be deleted or infracted.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, racist, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

And in case you somehow aren't aware of what I'm talking about: here's a link to the biggest offender right now:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/punching-nazis.609891/

 

[Hygro]

This site has a long and storied history of debating violence. I invite everyone to go back and read posts during the leadup to the Iraq War, in which many posters, (even moderators!), alternatively calling for war ("advocating violence") or advocating for peace. The thread in question has been a productive debate of the issues at the forefronts of peoples minds today. You can watch the usual suspects take the usual positions, and then you can watch those who are considering all the arguments formulate syntheses and their new opinions.

I for one feel like I learned a fair amount from that thread and continue to look forward to discussing issues of our human civilization here in CFC's off topic.

 

[Synobun]

As uncomfortable as it may be to see people I respect go off the deep end on a moral issue, and as distasteful as it may be to advocate for escalated violence beyond what's already been done, I think the thread's been handled alright so far. Moderators have taken action in the thread over the past week and IIRC one even steered the conversation away from a certain train of thought that was getting particularly antsy.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I've pressed for forum rules against advocating violence, and tend to interpret the major intention of these rules as applying to the forum itself. We're not allowed to threaten each other, harass each other, and worse - several years ago I saw posts in which a forum member was told to kill herself. That was made a bannable offense, btw, or at least it still was during my time on staff. It's an appallingly cruel thing to say to anyone.

That said, I've wondered as well why this thread wasn't locked right from the get-go. I have no love or even tolerance for Nazis or Holocaust denial or anti-Jewish bigotry, but advocating violence in that way... what is it supposed to accomplish, other than letting the person committing the violence let off steam?

My grandfather had a streak of anti-Jewish bigotry, and he did try to indoctrinate me to believe as he did (he wasn't a Holocaust denier, though he did say he understood why it happened). I didn't slap him. I just told him that I didn't want to hear it in the house, and if he really believed all that, he should stop watching anything William Shatner was in immediately and stop borrowing my books. William Shatner is Jewish, and at least a third of my book collection was written by authors who happen(ed) to be Jewish.

He probably never changed his mind about Jews. But there was peace in the house on the topic.

As for the thread... I don't like it, so I've stopped reading it. I think it's unfortunate that it exists, but the world is topsy-turvy these days. If Justin Trudeau were to appear at my front door, half the apartment building would hear the tongue-lashing I'd like to give him for the crap he's pulled during the past month.

 

[jma22tb]

It reveals a bias that should be called out every day until either the moderators step down and are replaced by people who want to maintain civil discourse that respects all sides, or for the moderators to explicitly point out that they are a Left-leaning group of people who do not want anyone who supports nationalism or right wing politics to be here.

 

[Synobun]

It's not a bias to allow discussion to continue as long as it remains restrained.

 

[jma22tb]

That thread is celebrating political violence against a group that is not committing violence against anyone.

 

[Traitorfish]

That thread is celebrating political violence against a group that is not committing violence against anyone.

What? White nationalists are unquestionably the most violent political tendency in the United States by a wide margin.

 

[jma22tb]

If you can link Richard Spencer in any way to Nazi ideology I will be genuinely amazed

 

[Traitorfish]

If you can link Richard Spencer in any way to Nazi ideology I will be genuinely amazed

If "not technically a Nazi" is all you can say about the guy, I'm going to suggest that you are not arguing from a position of strength.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It reveals a bias that should be called out every day until either the moderators step down and are replaced by people who want to maintain civil discourse that respects all sides, or for the moderators to explicitly point out that they are a Left-leaning group of people who do not want anyone who supports nationalism or right wing politics to be here.

As an former moderator who had to deal with some incidents in politically-tense threads, I can say that I don't believe that the current staff - most of whom were staff during my time - moderate from a place of political bias.

 

[jma22tb]

If "not technically a Nazi" is all you can say about the guy, I'm going to suggest that you are not arguing from a position of strength.

If you think calling people Nazis matters in 2017, I'm going to assert that you have no idea what a position of strength is rhetorically at this point.

 

[Traitorfish]

If you think calling people Nazis matters in 2017, I'm going to assert that you have no idea what a position of strength is rhetorically at this point.

It matters enough for you to defend Spencer against the accusation.

 

[jma22tb]

As an former moderator who had to deal with some incidents in politically-tense threads, I can say that I don't believe that the current staff - most of whom were staff during my time - moderate from a place of political bias.

I can say with conviction that they do because I have been infracted and locked out for the exact same types of things that are being said in that thread, but directed toward non-White groups.

I guarantee you if you took those responses and replaced "Nazi" with the N-word used against black people that thread would have been shut down within 10 minutes.

 

[Traitorfish]

I guarantee you if you took those responses and replaced "Nazi" with the N-word used against black people that thread would have been shut down within 10 minutes.

Well, "Nazi" is not an ethnic slur. That is an important distinction which, in your laudable enthusiasm for civil liberties, you seem to be overlooking.

 

[jma22tb]

It matters enough for you to defend Spencer against the accusation.

If Spencer is a Nazi, then you are an Anti-Semite for saying that a people cannot have a homeland that they seek to rule in their own group's vision.

 

[jma22tb]

Well, "Nazi" is not an ethnic slur. That is an important distinction which, in your laudable enthusiasm for civil liberties, you seem to be overlooking.

It has become an ethnic slur. Anyone who uses social media would know that, but you obviously live in a 1930s and 1940s bubble

 

[Traitorfish]

If Spencer is a Nazi, then you are an Anti-Semite for saying that a people cannot have a homeland that they seek to rule in their own group's vision.

What?

It has become an ethnic slur. Anyone who uses social media would know that, but you obviously live in a 1930s and 1940s bubble

A slur against who?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I can say with conviction that they do because I have been infracted and locked out for the exact same types of things that are being said in that thread, but directed toward non-White groups.

I guarantee you if you took those responses and replaced "Nazi" with the N-word used against black people that thread would have been shut down within 10 minutes.

Did you discuss it with the moderator(s) who infracted you? If there was no resolution, you do have the right to appeal an infraction or ban you don't accept.

 

[jma22tb]

What?


A slur against who?

1) Arguing against Richard Spencer and the Alt Right is like arguing that Jews have no right to a homeland, a right to exist, or a future for their children because they were the primary operators of the African slave trade. Everyone has done messed up horsehocky in history. To declare any group invalid and unworthy of existence isn't just wrong it is evil.

2) Anyone who is White or looks White. Go make a Twitter account, look up White People on the search tab and you'll see for yourself.

Did you discuss it with the moderator(s) who infracted you? If there was no resolution, you do have the right to appeal an infraction or ban you don't accept.

I was a little too aggressive at the time, so I didn't challenge it. If I get infracted for what I've been posting today then all doubt will be removed