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Do you allow social policy saving when you play?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Soronery, Dec 21, 2010.

?

Do you play with policy saving on?

  1. No, I do NOT check "Allow Policy Saving"

    96 vote(s)
    72.2%
  2. Yes, I check "Allow Policy Saving"

    37 vote(s)
    27.8%
  1. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    Uh, no choices were taken away, the default was just changed and a new choice was added (to revert to the old default).

    I literally can't understand why anyone would complain about this. It's more choice, not less, with the original option intact.

    Well, actually, I can think of many reasons why someone would complain about it, but in terms of the choice argument I quoted, it's recursive and cancels itself out.
     
  2. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    edit: oops, double post.
     
  3. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    What you forgot to mention is that even "supporters" of the "1upt" are calling for exceptions, special rules and what not more.

    In fact, it seems like many are only voting for "1upt" as a means to display their unhappiness with the SoD.
     
  4. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    I didn't forget to mention anything. I see no evidence that a significant subsection of 1UPT supporters want that feature changed to an extent that it would no longer be 1UPT.

    Unless they're arguing for something *other* than 1UPT, they support 1UPT. There are far more people complaining about 1UPT than there are people posting in support of it, with or without modifications. That, in conjunction with the vote results, suggests that people who dislike 1UPT as a concept are far more vocal than those who like it as a concept.
     
  5. Mathew

    Mathew Chieftain

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    To be fair they patched the game to work by default as they had initially intended, however, as people still wanted the option of saving their policy choices they included a setting that allows the game to continue to function this way. I really don't see a problem here worth complaining about.
     
  6. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    Ok, I will try to explain it step by step.

    Prior to 1.135, you could save SP's by right clicking the button or shift-enter.
    Some people thought this to be an exploit, others thought this to be a valid option.

    In any way, it was completely up to the player's discretion. You did have the option to make use of that feature or not.

    With 1.135, they disallowed this, in other words, they removed the option.
    To please people who liked it, they entered an option in the advanced set up menu to re-enable the option.

    So, first it was taken away, and then by additional programming (most probably not too complicated but consuming manpower during patching) they gave you the option to re-enable it.

    To me, this doesn't make any sense at all.
    The ones who disliked the previous feature were not forced in any way to make use of it.
    The ones who liked it will re-enable it anyway.

    So, why was it changed at all?
     
  7. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    In fairness though, that is an old poll. It was bumped a few days ago by a spammer. The spammer's post was deleted, but not before the discussion was sparked anew.

    So it's possible that the poll results don't reflect current attitude towards 1UPT. It's possible that back in early October, there were more people in favor of it than there are now.
     
  8. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    There is no "first...then" here from the player's perspective. The changes were implemented simultaneously in the same patch.

    It still is...

    ...and, we still do.
     
  9. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    So, why was the additional programming necessary?
     
  10. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    Again, it's an unscientific inference; however, unless the spammer spammed the poll itself with answers in favor of 1UPT, the disconnect persists: most of the negative posts were from Oct., and presumably, so were most of the votes.

    But, I can't look at the DB entries to see if there is a timestamp for the votes and what they are.
     
  11. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    I don't know if this was a factor in the decision or not, but for multiplayer, you'd want to set game rules that everyone follows, not rely on the honor system to have people not save them.
     
  12. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    I have no idea why they made the choices they made.

    Is there a downside to their willingness to spend a little extra time patching the game?
     
  13. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    RE: the 1upt poll, it's now up to 6:1 in favor of 1upt.
     
  14. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    You're right, it is unscientific, and we can't see the date of the votes. I was more thinking that the votes reflect attitude in October, and current discussion reflects attitude today. I'll admit to not having read the thread, so if your claim is that the posts are skewed more toward opposition even back in October, then I'll take your word for it. I am part of your demographic that supports 1UPT but is not vocal enough to heap praise on it. I don't even care enough to read that thread ...
     
  15. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    Posts up through page 6 are from October, and there are 7.5 pages total. Since 12/21, when it got bumped, votes in favor have gone up around 100 points, while votes against have changed almost not at all. By contrast, comments since 12/21 number well below 100, with very few unquestionably in favor.

    Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this into an ongoing, off-topic tangent. My main point is, very few people can do a lot to give a very strong impression of overall opinion that may not at all reflect the true general consensus (not that this is any kind of new or novel concept, just interesting to have some anecdotal evidence re: CFC and its vocal ciV detractors vs how people feel even if they don't post about it).
     
  16. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    This is not really true.

    When the thread was bumped, it was around 82% in favor or 1upt, now it is around 80%.

    But anyway, I just had a look at the first page:
    So, even some of the supporters have stated that they aren't completely happy with that principle.

    As I've said before already: I regard this poll to be more a voting against the SoD than in favour of "1upt" (which, by the way, isn't really 1upt as that doesn't work at all).

    Regarding the claim that only the infamous "vocal minority" voted against: there have been players with a total of 33 postings voted against, too.
    These can't hardly be called part of the "vocal minority".
     
  17. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    There are 150 total posts in the thread vs 633 votes in favor. Even if every single reply was by an individual (i.e., no one posted more than once) and could be described as people who supported but wanted modification, that would represent 1/6 of the people voting in support of 1upt.

    However, I suspect at least a few people have posted more than once in there, bringing that 1/6 down even lower. I also suspect that not all people who have posted fit into any one category (support, support with exception, do not support). So, 1/6 goes lower yet.

    Finally, again, support with modifications is still support

    In summary, the "with modifications" part doesn't have any bearing on the disconnect between votes in favor vs vocal detractors.

    Right, otherwise you'd have to admit that maybe a lot of people (most?) just plain love the game (or, 1upt in this case) as it is ;).
     
  18. aguds

    aguds Warlord

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    Always spend on the turn I earn. Did that before the patch too.
     
  19. Mathew

    Mathew Chieftain

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    As someone already mentioned the change was important for multi-player. Using the honour system is not a good solution in those situations.

    Additionally, perhaps Firaxis just wanted to make the default settings the way they had intended people to play it. I don't see an issue here, it's there game after all. They provided the advanced option to allow us to continue playing with policy saving if that is our preference.

    It's pointless to complain about something so minor, especially when the option was never even removed from the game. I feel that you don't like Civ 5 so you are just coming up with the smallest reason you can possibly think of to complain.

    Would you prefer that they didn't spend the time to change this around and remove the dev-time completely? Maybe they would have worked on something else, but maybe not. We don't know. Other issues will be addressed in future patches anyway.
     
  20. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    There has never been a numbers-based analysis to support this patch decision. Nobody has ever shown numerically that storing is superior to up/front sooner gains on earlier SP.

    Which makes this particular patch decision COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS. Why not just randomly change other balance features while the UI still doesn't work? Come on, it'll be FUN?!
     

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