Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hygro, Jun 24, 2019.
... as is pursuit of sex, I'm afraid.
True, all part of human nature, but pursuit of status is actively encouraged and attaining it regarded as virtuous in most traditional societies.
By nutwing journalists and the Twitter mob, yes. I've interacted with liberals outside of the internet and they are surprisingly sane.
Wealth would have been a better term.
I've interacted with conservatives outside the Internet, and they are surprisingly sane...
Which "liberal" societies ONLY value sex and power, and nothing else, and how the Hell are you even defining the word "liberal" here? By the way you use the words "conservative" and "liberal," or "traditionalist" and "modernist," I'm really doubting that you REALLY follow, in true tenets and broader world view, Judaism, or any Abrahamic Monotheist religion at all - but I think you, like a LOT of people in the world today, are part of a revival of Manichaeanism.
He usually reacts to consumerism and public displays of sex-as-status from what I can tell(on the balance, specifically, not exhaustively). And frankly, ever since Cindy Crawford was selling me Pepsi before I knew why I really really really wanted that pepsi it is pretty easy to miss how pervasive they are and find it weird that they cause continual discomfort or aggravation to somebody.
Sex & status are pretty important. Similar to sleep, if you're not getting enough you're gonna be grumpy all the time. Can one operate that way & still achieve greatness? Maybe. But I want the best of all worlds. May as well use my "low" desires for sex, adoration as well as my "high" desires. Most of the positive things i do are motivated by both sets of desires, for example exercise, I do it to be more attractive to women, to be higher status (when one sees someone in impressive physical condition they automatically respect them more without them even having to say or do anything) but I also do it for my health, so I can better protect my family if need be, lift heavy things for little old ladies, long longer and be less of a burden to others in my old age.
I don't think I could constantly achieve any goals without both "low" and "high" drives working in tandem. And generally if you want to motivate others or oneself you're better off focusing on the primal drives first.
It's up to each person what they determine is "good". If you're sacrificing temporary satisfaction you're still hoping for more by pursuing whatever you're pursuing. I didn't say happiness is the only good, it's just what drives everything else.
I assume that means hooking your brain up to some sort of pleasure-box/virtual reality machine? It's a good question & I'm not really sure.
Certainly when I'm elderly & feeble without responsibilities to others I would do it. Now, I don't think so. I have a responsibility to my daughter & besides, when I don't pay my electric bill the pleasure turns off, no? Not a sustainable solution. Anyway, if such a thing is invented I'd rather wait until they get the bugs out.
If I could wear such a machine & still function in everyday life or take some sort of pill or have a brain operation that would bring my baseline level of satisfaction higher without side effects, yes I would do it in a minute.
Of course not. I don't want to get rid of these pleasures, I just think modern society places far too little value on the higher ones.
There is a difference between fulfillment and happiness. A solder bleeding out his wounds into the snow might take satisfaction that he died defending his country, but he wouldn't be exactly happy at that moment. Besides which, why are you supposing that external goals are completely subjective?
No, if you could live for eternity (or the rest of your natural lifespan) hooked up to the machine and do nothing else, would you accept that? Assume that all of your responsibilities are taken care of, e.g. humans live under the care of a benevolent superintelligence.
All goals are subjective, defined by the subject.
Why would the solider feel noble dying for his country? So that his countrymen and women could live better due to his sacrifice. It all comes down to satisfaction, either ones own or others.
Yes I'd do it. Wake me up once a year and force me to spend a week in the real world and then let me choose to go back into the simulation if I desire.
As you know, in traditional society wealth is valued only insofar as it can bring status.
Ha! More evidence he has no idea at all what he's even talking about when he says "traditional society," and that all his "traditional values" are just conjured up, distorted, revised, LSD-induced delusions and lies of a world and era that never existed. The "traditional society and times" he speaks of never were, and never meaningfully can be. They are only a twisted fantasy for dystopian tyranny that must be called out and stopped as surely as any other horrid, atrocious, and EVIL regimes should have in it's day, because no GOOD will come of allowing such warped "self-proclaimed, would-be theocrats" any power over other people at all.
I wasn't joking or attempting to inspire mirth, you know...
Choking on the brimstone, there?
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