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Do you believe in punishment?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hygro, Jun 24, 2019.

?

How do you feel about punishment itself?

  1. Just punishment is a virtue

    33.3%
  2. Punishment is a necessary evil

    20.5%
  3. All responses to misdeeds should only be for harm reduction etc

    28.2%
  4. Some other take that’s meaningfully different without pedantry

    5.1%
  5. Erika will post a meme that is this option

    12.8%
  1. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

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    If you're listening to people who say casual sex is great for guys and bad for girls, you are listening to cretins.
     
  2. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    That message is 100% pervasive in popular culture, though, even in movies and television shows that are otherwise deliberately and consciously feminist. In popular fiction, one of the hallmarks of the "bad girl" - whether it's the troubled anti-heroine or the normally-upstanding woman who's simply hit a rough patch of road - is that she's promiscuous. I can think of five shows that I watch today that use that trope: Jessica Jones; In the Dark; Fleabag; Killing Eve; and GLOW. And almost every one of them punishes the woman for it, somehow. These are all 'feminist' shows, by the way.

    Jessica Jones season 3, episode 1 spoiler:
    Spoiler :
    Jessica meets a guy in a bar, takes him home; they're about to tear each other's clothes off when there's a knock at the door. Jessica opens the door and literally gets stabbed in the stomach.
     
  3. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    In Islamic and pagan cultures, certainly. Not in any society whose religious canon included the Book of Leviticus.
     
  4. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

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    I would reiterate my opinion on most popular culture and my opinion of consuming it. Even then, there is a lot of "pop" stuff that has nothing to do with that or actively disavows it. Children's programming, while often stupid, is usually a cut above. There's like, books and stuff. Cable TV and subscription services have been trashy trash for a long time. Did you ever see episodes of Queen for a Day?
     
  5. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    How is it not so?
     
  6. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

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    It has to be so, if you look at what "cretin" means. Fits the definition as if the word was made for the man that would hold such a view as acceptable.
     
  7. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    I mean, how is casual sex not better for guys than girls?
     
  8. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Lol, bro how do you know he never cheated again & is happy?

    Lots of people change their lives in response to violence, getting beaten up, a near fatal car accident, some other brush with death. That doesn't mean violence is good.

    I can't imagine any situation where I'd hit my kid even if I had some magical foreknowledge that it would lead to a good outcome.

    Do you really believe that? I hope you're not a parent (or a teacher).

    I don't go around assaulting or robbing people. Not because I'm afraid of public shaming but because it's ****ing wrong. I didn't need to be beaten up & robbed as a kid to learn that. Being beaten up & robbed does help remind you that it's wrong but it's not necessary, hopefully neither will happen to my daughter & yet I'm pretty confident she'll grow up to know it's just as wrong as I do.
     
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  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Women like having sex just as much as men do bruh
     
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  10. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Judging from their vocalizations they enjoy it alot more. Plus they can have multiple orgasms. It's a bit of a curse to be a man, you want it more but enjoy it less (when I'm single anyway, in a committed relationship usually my partner has the higher libido). Not that I'm complaining, in the right circumstances it's still pretty awesome.
     
  11. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

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    The physical risks and costs that go with the emotional risks and costs are true across the board as is the pleasurable aspect of the activity. Granted, if somebody is a cretin, they'll less experience emotional costs themselves and reduce the value of any the cause. Gettin' frustrated and horny sucks and it warps your brain if you focus on it too long at a time. Physical activity helps, but who am I to judge on that one. Getting messed up and staring at sexual content on a screen largely alone? That's... rough on sanity and socialization. Been there. Not a happy place for any great length of time.
     
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  12. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    I don't, for sure, but all evidence suggests improvement. Of course it would never have helped a sex addict or someone unhappy in his marriage, but someone looking to be a 'playboy' just after saying his marriage vows... yep.

    If they raped someone? Did cocaine for fun? Kicked a crying special-ed classmate right in front of you?

    There are millions of religious, sex-negative people who look at hardcore internet porn almost daily. Surely they think it is wrong to do so, but that doesn't seem to stop them.

    People always behave as they are culturally conditioned to, even when they rationalize that behavior as derived from knowledge or divine commandment. If you don't believe that, demonstrate to your kids from first principles that it is wrong to harm others, then drop them into a prison with segregated races and a full-blown gang war. Check on them a couple years later.

    But they have a different desire for relationships (if you assume that's just patriarchy stuff, how do you account for the difference between gay men and lesbians?).
     
  13. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Everyone's different. Casual sex just doesn't work for some people, men and women, and that's fine.
     
  14. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Casual sex works for very few women and many men. Is my point.
     
  15. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Yeah and this kind of entails telling a rather large number of women what works for them, as though they can't decide that or figure it our for themselves.
     
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  16. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    I can understand these type of extreme events can create a sense of justice/closure, I just think it's primitive.

    If my daughter sexually assaulted someone I'd be pretty upset but I wouldn't hit her.

    I plan to educate her about drugs. If she messes with any of the drugs on the top half of this chart (besides maybe having a beer once in awhile) I'll be disappointed but I don't see how violence is going to IMPROVE the situation.

    If I saw her beating up someone I would restrain her (after making sure she wasn't in any physical danger), restraint is not the same as violence though.

    Yeah because their dumbass religious programming goes against their nature as sexual beings. So they get into a shame spiral of compulsive behavior followed by shame.

    If shame were adequate as a punishment it would work & they would stop. Shame is actually pretty bad at affecting change : https://blog.ted.com/the-science-of...hy-its-so-dang-hard-to-stick-to-a-resolution/

    No argument here. My argument is that shame or physical violence is a good motivator for long term positive behavior change. It may work in some cases (like your philandering uncle) but it shouldn't be anyone's first choice.

    The data about gay men & lesbians mostly just shows men have more desire to have sex with more partners more often generally speaking. Drive is not the same as enjoyment. Fat people don't necessarily enjoy food more than skinny people (from what I've read about compulsive eaters they often enjoy it less) they are just more driven.

    Human beings are not necessarily wired with our own best interest & well being in mind sadly, if that were the case managing our drives & emotions would be a breeze.
     
  17. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    What do you mean by "works"?
     
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  18. MaryKB

    MaryKB Goddess Queen Supporter

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    Works for his desired social order, where women are property.
     
  19. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    People are complicated. Don't waste time trying to figure out motivations, apply ethical treatments based on their results.

    See my followup post: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/do-you-believe-in-punishment.647091/#post-15478774
     
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  20. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    This is good advice actually. If I'd had that attitude most of my life it would've saved me a lot of grief.
     
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