Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by DAC, Nov 19, 2011.
Ghandi after I am done with him:
I hold a grudge against Alexander.Now he is a backstabber.Cathy well...she is russian...Amlost all Russians leaders will attack you eventaully,but Percilies is cool and I expected the same from his son Alexander,but that was my mistake...
I also must take out Musa Mansa or Ethoipia.They can really tech like Crazy.Some games the other civs on the new world will be super smart if these two plus Inca,Maya or Greece are involved can get ugly...
The leader that I hold a forever grudge against: Kublai Khan.
Isabella used to be my least favorite, but then I noticed a pattern forming with Kublai. Well, not really a pattern, more like Deja-vu. He DoWs me almost always within the first 10 turns after meeting me. It doesn't matter if we are the same religion, or on opposite sides of the continent, or what. Then, to make it worse, he throws everything he's got at me, as if I did something wrong to him and he's gonna make me pay. This screws my game over, as I end up wasting valuble early-game hammers that SHOULD be being used for better things. And to top it all off, he sets all the followers of my religion (sometimes it's both of ours) into a bloody civil war against their brothers in the faith. Sometimes he bribes them to DoW me, sometimes another person of my religion. Here I have no proof that it's really him bribing them, but my bitter, resentful side wants to beleive it is.
And he often wins on really bad odds. (My defending trireme with triple drill VS his attacking trireme with no promotions=he wins, as well as several other instances.). But only when he attacks.
It winds me up when I'm the Worst Enemy of Stalin just by saying hello, he has to die. I agree about MM, luckily most of the civs seem to hate him so I always try to get them to dogpile him.
It's strange how different people have different experiences. I've never had a war against KK (either playing OCC or ordinary games). In OCCs I solely run Bureaucracy. As soon as I get Civil Service I'll sell it to him for 5 gold, get the +4 'fair trade' modifier, he'll adopt Bureau and I'll get the +5 favourite civic and a friend for life.
In a new game? No, new round new chance. It is hard enough to focus on the best path without notions from previous games.
Spoken like someone living in England . . .
Haha, I know. I do feel slightly guilty about it, on occasion, but just can't stop.
Last month I was playing, and I suppose I must have gotten a little over excited, and yelled something to the effect of "Suck it Ghandi, you bald loser!" My girlfriend, and one of her friends overheard (from downstairs) and were a tad confused/concerned as to how I could hate Ghandi so much. Did not bother explaining.
I hold a grudge against people who claim that there is no difference between astronomy and astrology
j/k... personally i hate to see Gilgamesh. Over all my civ games i think he comes closest to what you would describe as a nemisis.
The most thorough way to repay any civ grudge is to win the game in the face of their transgressions anyway.
ah, when it comes to the leaders in civ IV, I must admit, I feel like they are my family (and yeah, most of them HAVE personalities similar to what I will have to encounter for the holidays)....so I don't know if I hold a grudge....but I've been playing a LOT of the 1000AD scenario, with an XML hack here or there to change a leader or two....
gilgamesh (or any here not mentioned) - no opinion, rarely ever see him
alexander - because most of the people who really annoy me irl are named alex, I have decided to declare war on sight and only allow peace if he vassals to me, or to some other power who I am not at war at the time. Would rather burn all his cities to the ground than vassal him
Isabella - who could stay angry at that cute face, even when she's burning all my cities to the ground because I decided to do a custom start as roosevelt on the east coast of the USA and I needed to adopt hinduism to keep Monty at bay?....the anger in her eyes....it's just the fire of desire....
Louis XIV. Dude actually nuked the living heck out of me once....but I had hacked my music files in the modern era, so "it's the end of the world as we know it" was playing by REM at the time, and it...just seemed fitting, no grudge...besides, I feel bad for the guy, being voted by these forums as in the top 5 fattest & ugliest leaders in CIV IV.
Napoleon. One of my favorite historical figures irl. When this guy actually declares on me and you watch his stacks actually act even SIMILAR to mobility and logistics this guy employed in real life, heck, I wanna LET him capture my civ my heart swells with pride so much.
De Gaulle. Freakin' poseur, acting like he MATTERED in the second world war. Okay, if I was ever humiliated by this maurice chevalier impersonator, I'd probly get a little miffed
Bismarck. Hack this guy in for Frederick in the HRE and give him the german civ....and let him last to the modern era....and yeah, he's always dropping marines and paratroopers on me....I don't grudge him tho, I respect him when he does that....
Frederick. - Never seen this guy put up anything resembling resistance in the 1000AD scenario. I'd probably hate myself if he steamrolled me more than him.
The celtic leaders (hacked into dublin)....well, give them only one city, and they'll just vassal up to the UK most of the time. So I've never bothered to get mad at them, they haven't been too effective....However, once Bootycall actually declared on me when I told her that she was the spitting image of Anette Benning....
Elizabeth I - what? be mad at my second favorite "let them tech away for my conquest-negotiation advancement?" naaah...no grudges there
Churchill - Second favorite historical figure of the bunch after Napoleon. If El-protectivo ever really did declare on me and serve my head on a platter back to me, I'd be more surpised than upset if anything.
Victoria - What can I say, Sir Mixalot got this one right, so again, even if she performed anywhere near on the par of Elizabeth I, and threw my stuff out on the lawn and changed the locks on my civ...I'd prolly forgive her.
Mansa Musa - This forum talks a LOT about this guy, he and Elizabeth I share a lot of Tech W&*&e traits, except on earth 1000 his start is designed to make his AI performance suxxor max vs. Elizabeth's....again, if Mansa ever rolled on me with modern armor in 2075 (just...one...more...turn...) I'd salute him instead of hate him.
Saladin - it's earth 1000 scenario...he's the guy the scenario was designed for you to love to hate.....so I don't bear a grudge....the grudge is already designed in!
the Ottoman Leaders/civ = I found hacking out sally and hacking in the onion head hat leaders basically makes it not change much, but If I don't interfere, Jerusalem doesn't typically fall to the Bizzie/Christian coalition, and Russia STILL rips the mideast empire apart come the post-cossack age. (could be because the mideast is set to diety handicap, unsure)....again, no grudges. Also it seems the Ottomans hold the score lead longer than Sally does.
Shaka/Yaqob - Hack the Mali civ (and worldbuild the ethiope barb capital to the african AI) with shaka, I found you won't get anything different, he'll still vassal to the mideast, but you might see a tiny stack trying to go after Ragnar or the non-player Byzantines....Hack in Yaqob, and maybe, just maybe by the endgame, you'll see africa in the midscore range....I will admit, in other "normal" games where all civs start, I have a grudge against shaka because if you allow him to survive, he can vassal other civs and grow into a monster, so Shaka must go, to avoid being swamped by him in war....Yaqob, well, I gotta get rid of him because I agree with the forums that he ranks in the top 10 percentile of leaders that overall will pwn other AIs when left alone.
Monty - most of us love to hate this guy. Since I do sometimes do an american hack into 1000AD, I'm facing this guy similar to how roosie does on earth 18. So yeah, he's probably my fave grudge matcher, but again, when he pwns me, it's early, and I respect that, if it's midgame and I vassaled him, and let him grow too big (monty IS a great war thrall, but don't ever demand resources from him if you NEED his power to keep in the game)...and well, I deserve what I get. I've seen this guy go from one and I gave him mercy to later making me wish I hadn't.
Pacal - hack him for monty (and don't worldbuild start in north america) and....who knows? you might have a gleaming empire filled with cities of gold and wonders when you landfall...all guarded by 5, maybe 6 holkans each. ...hack him in for Huanya Capac and...well, with no way out of the Andes (as I believe Neal in his king of the world series has shown), it doesn't matter WHO you give that craptastic location. I guess i DO have a grudge against Pacal. His music is....annoyingly compulsive....his body language is like the children of the single moms I'm trying to date, and he builds just enough troops to make me think twice about steamrolling HIM, which annoys me for being so cowardly towards someone I wanna squish like a lil' bug.
Huayna Capac - as peeps in this forum have mentioned, this guy is one of the strongest AIs around, his traits, unit and building synergy. Start on pangea 18 with this guy on the opposite end, and it's possible his modern armor will be coming at YOU one day. in my earliest days playing civ IV....he did just that. But on earth 1000, he's smiling at you even when furious because he gets one city that might make size 8, and two fishing villages.....he most likely won't even settle the copper rich desert city to the south because....what's the point?...so, no grudge...besides, I actually love Peruvian pan flute music. I feel sorry for the guy...
Catherine - Now HERE's the gal who seriously peeves me. As you all have talked about in this forum, she'll backstab you at FRIENDLY....and she seems to do...just that.....but what can I say? Izzy is the cutest, but when Kathy slaps me even at pleased when all I'm doing is asking for a 1 gold piece "spare for a friend"....reminds me of how clooney felt about catherine Zeta jones in that awful lawyer movie whose title I can't remember....so, no, no grudges.
Peter - in earth 1000AD, pete and Cathy, both left alone, pretty much own the board. Sometimes, they go after china along the way, which only postpones them eating the middle east for lunch, (instead they have the mideast for supper). Never really been pwned by peter, and again, feel sorry for the guy, with such dreadful "volga river" diplo music and the bill clinton nose, I'd probably trade genetics to him so he could go to space before I get invaded by some other 1000AD-er and get the game mercifully over with instead of holding a grudge.
Stalin - Hack in Stalin for russia, and you'll get more of mixed bag. He typically doesn't do as well as the other two russians, but if he does, it's less space, more war. In any "regular start" game, Stalin's civ is usually a pile of ruins before my scouts even find him.
Qin Zhui....Qin Zee....Kimchee whang ....ok, here's my grudge guy. This guy is MURDER (probably because I always start in europe or the americas so he gets BIG...and i'm not a big "bureaucracy only" kinda guy so he's usually pissed at me SOMEWHERE during the game and therefore plotting war against me. ....to be honest, if I DID play an asian start....I'd go big guns for this guy...also the only asian civ I've ever seen land a half decent north american amphibious assault.
Chairman Mao - when the 1000AD leaders are hacked with their modern equivs (de G, Bismarck, Churchill, Stalin, and mao) this guy seems to do all right....he never seems to be as mad at me in the americas as Qin gets (could be because he gets even LESS love from russia, and of course, he takes longer in gobbling korea, the Khmer and India)
Sury - on the BTS 1000AD start, this guy is here. He vassals to china, grows, and typically is in the middle of the scoreboard, when before he was at the bottom. In "regular" starts, I've seen this guy get as dangerous as he looks. If he ever DID own me, I'd probably spend the next game looking to take him down.
Asoka - in 1000AD, he and Mansa are the guys you go to when you want to trade....anything....I would be a little ...hurt...if the guy ever steamrolled me....of course, he'd only be doing it because his master, china, was doing it first.
Ghandi - my favorite let-them-grow-harvest-them-later guy. As intimated somewhere in these forums....if Ghandi ever pwned me, I'd have to go back to playing facebook games.
Wang Chung - still vassals to China, but at least puts up the most respective fight against them it seems. Doesn't like to invade me. Seems to rather be happy with dropping crappy cities in my way and closing borders. No grudge though
Tokugawa - I am guessing the real-life leader was a little more cunning than the way the programmers let this guy be. again, I feel bad for him. In a regular start game, where I did an 18 civ, with some civs being teamed as two (giving tokugawa two team slots), this guy ended up ruling the board, mostly because he never lost a war in open terrain. I look FORWARD to the games where he's a power. THe one grudge I DO hold against him on earth 1000 is if you vassal him, and even gift him power on par to yours, he seems to act like vichy france, not unit spamming, not building powerful navies (even though he was spamming those caravels and galleons fast as he could when you declared) and so when china declares on ME because he's more wanting to war with Tokes than me....china eats my "buffer in the west" faster than you can say sid's sushi. So my grudge is, why can't tokes be the war thrall monty (or if you are veerrryyyy lucky, cathy or peter) can be?
Washington - Never played against him on 1000AD, watched him in a vanilla civ 4 game in my first 20 games get mad at some other civ than me, and his modern armor Razed. every. last. city of that civ I can't even remember...it was an awesome thing to behold.....for a second I wondered if washington was honestly, seriously pissed, and the program had inherited some wicked real intelligence....sometimes I wish I could get washington to be that pissed at me, to see if he would raze my useful and productive cities.
Lincoln/Roosevelt. Guess it's a good thing that in real life, the Federal army outnumbered the confederate army 2 to 1, because on even footing...well,these forums have posited what happens on earth 18 regular start when monty, Bull and an american leader are all left to their own devices in north america....let's just say that washington is the only one with a chance in hell....So Lincoln is another tech-vassal, and I've never been upset by him. Usually, I'm upset at myself for vassaling him when my diplo is great, to be attacked by someone I thought was my friend (but wasn't because Lincoln/Roosevelt's rating with the attacker was horrible)
Sitting Bull....Eh, presently I'm a bachelor, and do my own cooking....and I've eaten English cuisine, I can handle bull's poison any day. He's cool.
Julius/Augustus - don't hack them into earth 1000 at all....on a pangea game once I wiped all out but augustus, vassaled augustus, and then did "one more turn" to see if I could get august to un-vassal later, and clean the slate of all civs....augustus was the first to then use AP cheese on me....I'll admit, that DID make me build a grudge for the next game...but since then, I've warmed to the roman leaders....I'll admit, I find augustus' body language to be more arrogant and petulant than Julius, so when I am dealing with rome, I'd rather let Julius' prats own me over augustus, but that's about it.
Hammurabi - I love the fact that he's probably as much as an alcoholic as Peter based on his nose, and when his diplo music flares up full fanfare, I keep wondering If I could get him to set me up with a green skinned orion chick.....maybe one of these days I'll hack him into leadership of the Middle eastern player on earth 1000 to see if it does anything (but since I'm guessing his UU is already obsolete, I'm unsure if that will do anything)
Justinian (as basil) - Never had a problem when in europe (cuz he's a zealot and if I'm in europe, so am I)....but when this guy drop colonies in the americas....I do remember him being a vassal to Bismarck and I'm trying to dislodge one of his colonies around the New orleans area during the age of infantry/arty....let's just say I don't declare on Justy a lot (also his terrain is hilly, and he really is a wonderful buffer against the middle east (because of course, no AI uses naval attacks across the mediterranean)...but I won't hesitate to smash his american colonies if he declares on me.
ragnar - in the vanilla 1000Ad, like Basil (byzantine) these guys are gone by 1400 AD, Ragnar sooner than Basil. but where they are "real" civilizations and not in ARW, One of my goals is to vassal, trade, or ally with Ragnar as soon as possible. Most likely because I play france a lot in europe, and my goal is usually controlling the HRE, England, and eventually Russia. Therefore I need a strong guy to resist Russia and be on my side when the time comes....sadly, this plan has never worked for me, because it seems Ragnar has so little power that he typically vassals to russia eventually (if byzantium, spain, and sometimes shaka?? don't take him down in the opening rounds when he is at war with all of europe despite being christian). In a "normal" start, if ragnar pwned me, I'd actually expect it. Based on what I've read here, ragnar may not be the strongest AI, but he's solid, and if lucky, knows how to war, and it does seem that when left alone, warlike AIs tend to do better than turtletechers. I've found hacking Brennus in for Ragnar (thinking those hill-defense UU would make a difference) doesn't seem to do a thing.
Darius/Cyrus - Never faced them down in a serious game. I remember the persian civ being something to recon with in earth 18 normal start, but not having much of a problem if I steamroll them early. and maybe one of these days I should hack them in for the middle east and see how they do. I am guessing similar to the babylonians, since their UU is already obsolete, it wouldn't make much of a difference, and actually nerf them (then again, by 1000AD, only the ottomans UU has yet to appear)
Charlemagne - I too share a love of the constant "burger king" jokes at this guys expense. So if in a straight game he owned me there would be a grudge on for the next one. of all the german/HRE leaders, when leading the HRE, he seems to be as effective as Frederick against his opponents, Bismarck seems to perform the best of the three.
Joao - Never have hacked him in for Izzy yet (or given him a start in Brazil)....I am guessing giving him a start similar to monty's (units, none settled) in brazil would be death for him if the barbs are raging (see final entry), but it might be interesting to hack him in for Izzy. I am guessing since Izzy does tend to settle the new world, and that's kind of what Joao is all about also, it wouldn't change much (of course, Joao could start sooner with his unique unit.) Also, it would be hard to be mad at Joao, with his happy face, his dapper clothes, and his kinda soothing, kinda spanish diplo music.
Genghis/Kublai - I must admit, every time I make diplo with these guys on 1000AD, I'll GIFT them tech, anything...anything....to make it somewhere NEAR history where the mongolians actually DID work china over.....one game in 15 maybe, the mongolians will take Yangjing or Quinzhou or maybe even some korean cities....but in the end, mongolia is the buffer for the raging barbs I always choose and no matter what I do (other than play them, which I rarely do), they are vassaled to china pretty darn quick. I've seen Genghis be a pretty interesting war thrall for china, but again that happens in 1 in 10 games. And I've never seriously squared up agaisnt them in normal start games. So, I guess I don't have a grudge against them....I actually make it a RPC to somehow manipulate 1000AD where the mongolian civ actually is a world-player in asia while I'm busy doing my piddling around in france or the americas.....
the Barbarians/ Sid Meier. Actually hack the BARBARIAN leader in for an AI that can diplo....well, it nerfs them horribly, and it seems that Sid will bother me.ever.turn. making one sort of demand or other (as he nearly immediately vassals)....so....I have a grudge against Sid...well, his computer version...and what's with that halo of light around his head?....if I'm a christian civ, I might even be a little offended.....
In all seriousness, the barbarians....they are my true hate....even though they are supposedly programmed to act stupid...man, they know when to pillage , and where to go when I show my obvious weaknesses.....In warhammer 40K, the empire of man says "thou shalt not suffer the alien, the mutant, the heretic, or the spawn of chaos to live"....the only reason they didn't include barbs is because by 40,000 AD, I am guessing the empire of man's culture pushed out so none of them could spawn anymore...but other than that, one should not suffer a barbarian to live...
Wow, you like 1000 AD...
I'm gonna have to concur, barbs are usually more enraging to me than any civ. Mostly because of their tendancy to spawn cities in odd areas of the map and promptly donate those cities to whichever AI civ has a couple of spare chariots in the area.
I think as far as general leader personality goes though, Toku, Charlie, DeGualle, Wang, Sury, and Sitting Bull piss me off most often, with special mention going out to Giggles, Ragnar, Alex, Louis, and Izzy.
Any civ that frequently performs spy missions on me is drawing a target on his or her back, as well.
Wow, you like 1000 AD...
yep...most likely because I'm too timid to go through the motions to get rhyes N fall (spelling?) on my computer. I do tend to like the scenarios that come closer to real life. In other threads they debate a lot about whether this game is/should be a game or a role playing experience. To each his own, and I give a hats off to the serious debators and posters in the strategy section of civ IV. but, in the end, I guess I'd have to side up with the role players....so I hope I don't attract extra rocks thrown at me when i say....(timidly...and ducking)...events on?
A long time ago...before I knew about the differences in personalities of the AI's. I had Catherine as a friendly(!) neighbour. I did have a couple of vassals, though! What did she do, you say? Guess one time! Yes, you are correct...she declared war on me!
Now, I don't really kill her off...or nuke her...in my games. But I do try to make her capitulate to me. That'll teach her a lesson, I presume!
I really don't hold a grudge against anyone else. It was just that first experience with her that made an impression lasting to this very day!
Kjotleik of Norway
I don't hold grudges from one game to the next but do keep in mind the tendencies of the AIs and act accordingly. However I do admit to holding grudges against civs within the context of a single game, sometimes pursuing a particularly obnoxious civ to their utter destruction, even when there may be other options that, on their face, might seem more strategically responsible.
Surprisingly this frequently yields positive results once vassalage becomes available. Too anecdotal and limited a sample to draw conclusions.
I'm particularly angered by demands for tribute and am very likely to come back later and eat that civ's lunch.
Shortly after starting to play Civ VI I changed the diplomacy text from the wussy "Well, if you insist..." to "I accept your demand but I have a long memory."
And it's true - regardless of how friendly we get, the civ in question will at some point be wiped off the map.
Is that why you have Dangermouse as your avatar?
- I thought about that while writing my post and was hoping that no one would notice.
All I can do is quote the theme song:
He's the greatest,
Wherever there is danger he'll be there!
He's the ace,
He's the strongest, he's the quickest, he's the best!
Wow, Civ VI looks surprisingly similar to civ IV
Apparently V bombed so much that they're just re-releasing IV with some upgraded diplo text...
Apparently V bombed so much that they're just re-releasing IV with some upgraded diplo text...
yay!....I do remember a long time ago there was this pack for updating diplo text with "quotes" that the leaders may have said in real life (or befit their personalities better)
is there a thread where the forumites have made comical suggestions for alternative diplo text?
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