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Do you play Community Patch-only ?

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by wnmc, May 13, 2018.

  1. wnmc

    wnmc Chieftain

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    Hello all,
    been playing your mod and reading this forum for years now, far too shy to post, and there are these quirks with Community Patch-only that I just deal with and move on. I hope this does not come off as a complaint.

    I am hoping with this post I can encourage you all to (temporarily!) remove Vox and play Community Patch-only, just to spark some discussion threads that get back to the roots of the original vision of the game, maybe once or twice a year, just to see if you're still on-target for your goals with Community Patch-only. At absolute most I only add EUI. How many Community Patch-only players are out there? Hopefully there are dozens of us.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  2. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    I can't see ever trying to go back to base Civ V, even with the community patch. It's too different, and not to its favor. Vox Populi really does play like the next expansion to Civ V.

    What's keeping you on CP-only?
     
  3. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    Though I play Vox Populi, here is some of the reason I see for playing CP-only:
    + Social. If you friend plays unmodded civ, you may want to play "almost the same game", so that you can talk to them about it.
    + Stability. Every two weaks, a new patch is out, with new balancing, new features, new bug-fixes, but also with new bugs, new balance problems, ... Sometimes, you don't want to be a beta-tester and be sure when you start a game to be able to play it until the end without problems.
    + Simplicity. Vox Populi is complex. The happiness system is not kind to you is you mismanage your cities, archers die easily if you make a mistake, ...
    + Few changes from unmodded. You don't need to learn from scratch the mechanism, using an out-of-date wikia and some tooltips with typos.
    + Compatible mods. Maybe you have some mods you really like and that are not (yet) compatible with VP.
     
    JamesNinelives, Remos and Grabbl like this.
  4. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    It would be nice to encourage more feedback on CP, since I know there are a lot of people who play with CP alone. There may be bugs that haven’t been reported because they don’t come up with the whole package. But it doesn’t really make sense for the majority of us who vastly prefer Vox Populi to switch back to vanilla for testing purposes.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  5. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    I'd rather vote for giving up CP without VP. With all the respect it is so much worse and supporting many versions is so much harder for developers
     
    vyyt likes this.
  6. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

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    Can't do that, JFD's mods use CPDLL, but are not designed for VP.
     
    cammcken likes this.
  7. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost King

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    As much as I prefer VP, the Community Patch is still providing a valuable service for the many players who don’t want a complete game overhaul. Plus there is JFDLC as previously mentioned, which is hugely popular, and rightly so.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  8. SLGray

    SLGray King

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    I only use CP, but I also use JFD's mods.
     
  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I'm curious about what you're referring to here. What's up?

    G
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  10. wnmc

    wnmc Chieftain

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    Hello again, thanks for reading, thank you all for replying.

    As you know, there are multiple parts to this project so I don't think it should be zero sum that if you prefer Vox you bash the other parts, or even ask for its removal. Vox is wonderful, it's clearly the successor. I've tried it a few times and yes it's great. For the limited time I have to play though I would prefer to master the game before moving on to Vox. (As an aside I had this game in my library for three years before playing it because I tried it twice and absolutely hated every thing about it. Then it just clicked one random day watching a video which helped me understand the game and I was hooked ever since.)

    I am surprised that even years later a discussion about Community Patch feels divisive, which is strange because it's part of the install package. Like going to your favorite takeout and ordering something, from the menu, that's less popular and yet people have negative opinions as to why.

    All I really wanted was some discussion on the Community Patch from time to time which eventually may lead to updates in the patch notes. Yes I realize the base game and expansions are old. No one is asking the "majority who vastly prefer Vox Populi to switch back to vanilla for testing purposes", but for a few brave souls to comment once in a while on whether or not the project is actually keeping the CP-only portion balanced - it's part of the same project. It took me a long while to realize the patch release notes and this sub-forum pertain highly to Vox and not Community Patch. I used to read the patch notes thinking they were about my issues but once I understood that I just waited patiently on subsequent patches to fix whatever my issues were at the time.

    To the question of quirks over the years, I have not kept records, but from memory there were things like AI religious pressure and AI city-state influence going out of control and getting insanely high numbers. I used to call it unholy pressure. Then a patch would bring one or both back under control. Another in recent memory was AI budgets going negative in the high -90s to more than -100s per turn and them rolling out wonders and a military with promotions that was a sight to behold - actually leading the science race and building space parts and rolling out nuke subs. Another from the past was start bias that repeatedly placed me far from AI and I couldn't get trade routes to them or to city states in the beginning.

    Some patches things were fine, no quirks really, some patches would skew things. There was a time when characters would walk or glide to the destination depending on patch - that was strange. I don't think the patch should affect animation but it did. I try all new patches on Prince with standard base settings to see if it's balanced before moving up. I usually don't move up.

    I just want to make sure you don't forget about Community Patch when testing, that's all really. I appreciate the work you all put into this project. I don't want to be negative, really don't want to cause division, just asking about something that's on the menu. Thanks again for reading.
     
    JamesNinelives and balparmak like this.
  11. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    So there's nothing wrong right now?

    For the record, any time there are 'bugfixes' or 'AI improvements' or 'performance optimizations,' those are taking place in the CP.

    G
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  12. wnmc

    wnmc Chieftain

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    I really didn't intend for it to be a bug/complaint thread and I appreciate you taking the time to ask. Also wanted to see if there are any others using CP-only out there. There are no problems at the moment, I stopped playing with the patch around a month ago - will probably pick it up again soon. And I'd like to say thanks for affirming that CP-only optimizations/improvements are taken into consideration. cheers
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  13. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    Yeah I look to CP to be my bugfix, performance, and API patch. Since it has a common ancestry with whoward's dll base, it's key that the CP be maintained, but only for those three goals. AI improvements wouldn't strictly need to be CP features, but I'm sure that's just a consequence of the original structure of A.I. calls baked into the program.

    In that sense also, to be fair CP wouldn't even be balanced except by a miracle. In the name, it lacks the Balance Overhaul attempt of the VP - you're stuck playing with the unmodded systems. … if you don't mod them. The Community Patch (like the Pick n Mix) lets you try to mod, by doing leaving the heavy lifting to it, and you get an expanded API. Vastly. JFDLC as noted, uses this. It's a (CP-enabled) alternative game.

    So I'm a CP-only guy. I'm making a mod suite. Next stop is editing how religion works - and it's easier because you can do anything VP does, just using tables. Great.

    An exception to all this is the city-state system, which is an all-or-nothing toggle last time I checked. And you can conquer other player's religions, which maybe you don't want to do but too bad, you didn't pray before you slay.
     
  14. Skindoe

    Skindoe Chieftain

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    Is there a place for a modpack with only the CP and not the Vox populi additions? I can't find one.
     
  15. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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  16. balparmak

    balparmak Warlord

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    My thoughts exactly, thanks. Changelogs or forum posts sadly doesn't always yield answers when it comes to CP, I remember having a hard time when I was trying to create a modpack and couldn't get an answer about which whoward mods were included, and minor stuff like that. Still it's great that developers are taking the time to maintain it, they could've just easily freeze it.

     
  17. ridjack

    ridjack King

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  18. Auberon

    Auberon Chieftain

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    I have only played with the Community Patch so far and I am not interested in the remaining Vox Populi features.

    The reason is rather simple, I like Civ5 a lot (global happiness, 1 UPT, the blend of macro and micro management, the victory conditions, the way city states work...) and I am not interested in something that appears to me as another game entirely. I really enjoy the better AI and it has renewed by interest in the game.

    May be someday will I be bored with Civ5 and I will feel the need to try another game. I will then give Vox Populi a try.
     
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    To note, none of the things you like about Civ 5 were removed from VP. :)

    G
     
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  20. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    Well, "the way city state works" has been changed in CSD, which is included in VP.
    And the global happiness system is far less global than in vanilla, since you actually want to optimize each city (so take care of local unhappiness) to tackle global unhappiness.

    So that's only halfly true.
     
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