1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[GS] Do you rush a district for State Workforce?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by incroc, May 18, 2019.

  1. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    42
    I've just bought Civ VI, but am struggling with a cramped start. It looks tempting as a plan making a campus just in time to get the State Workforce boost (after first getting early empire). Since campus is the earliest available district and culture seems the most important resource early in the game (the boost is worth 28 culture).

    But the campus itself is rarely that useful early while settlers, builders or units are.

    What do you guys usually do? Or plan to do, there's always barbs, dow etc to muddy the water. Is the 28 culture eureka worth investing the hammers?

    I can't help but feel a successful opening strategy will get almost every possible eureka and inspiration.
     
  2. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,325
    I normally only get this Inspiration if I find it in a goody hut. Occasionally I will rush a holy site and get the inspiration from that.
     
  3. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    42
    Yeah I reckon any faith-based strategy will pick up a holy site asap, but it feels slow to me. Culture, hammers, food and science in roughly that order feels like the right priority.

    Not that I've got much experience to back this feeling up.
     
  4. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    737
    As noted, most people that want a religion will get it because of an early holy site. However, if you know what you're doing on the great people front and a science victory, Hypatia (instantly build a library and +1 science all libraries) is definitely a great person you want. Because Hypatia basically requires getting a campus, library, and a second campus up asap, you'll basically get this boost (and recorded history on the second one) by accident.

    If you're not Rome, the boost is high priority. As Rome, it's still good but you're probabaly making a lot of culture for the early game without trying so the boost is always nice but probably won't catapult you forward.

    Any of the boosts required to get political philosophy is always high on the list of things to do. And that's not only because of the tier 1 governments, but those governor titles can be a huge boon to your start.
     
    Tyroq, Gorbles and Sostratus like this.
  5. Sostratus

    Sostratus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    870
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    One of the most important early game moments is getting political philosophy ASAP. It's a monumental power spike. Eurekas are probably the biggest peaceful factor (in conjunction with the human's ability to plan adjacency effects) that separates you from the AI.
    But regardless of inspirations, as far district rushing goes: if you happen to get a really nice location for a district super early, like say a convenient mountain/geothermal vent spot for a +4 campus in your capital, the proportional gain to your science output can be bonkers, especially in light of the fact that the only other source of science is pops. And 4 science is worth is worth 8 pop's intrinsic output. Since Civ empires move on an exponential curve, being able to get a boost early is worth massive boosts later. Korean Seowons (unique campus) are an example of something you always want to rush for exactly this reason.
     
  6. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    42
    Thanks for the input guys. I didn't consider gpp at all this early actually, but seems to be another pro-campus argument. Fitting two campus and a library early in the game seems like a nightmare to me, but I may make a lot of mistakes in placing cities and moving units. How many settlers do you build in such a strategy?

    4 science is not far off my spt when I make this decision, so if I can get a +4 one it's basically 100%. I agree the early turns are so so crucial, the only part of my civ game I really bother to optimise and enjoy theorising about.
     
  7. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    843
    I can't stand playing with someone else's religion even regardless of my victory type (I feel like I'm missing a large portion of the game if I do...) so I usually build a holy site in my capital as my first district, relatively early.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  8. Sostratus

    Sostratus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    Messages:
    870
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    Nominally the answer is "how much space do you have." Unlike civ5 there isn't really a good way to know in advance. You want to claim as much useful space as you can as fast as you can without being at risk of losing a war/overrun by barbs. A lot to juggle, I know, but that's something you get a feel for. As for cities themselves, technically you almost always want to pack those suckers in every 3-4 tiles. This is because any given city can only hold one copy of a specialty district, so by maximizing the number of cities you are maximizing the number of campuses, theaters, etc in a given space; this in turn means you are maximizing the amount of science/culture/etc in a given space. Several civs are especially tuned to playing this way, namely japan, germany, and mali (for the last two see the link in my signature) but it has other upsides, too, like: you'll never have loyalty issues, maximum number of trade routes, etc. You definitely do not have to settle like that, though. You can win with a handful of spread out cities if you like (and some civs, like australia, may prefer spreading out so they have more space to build adjacency bonuses with their unique improvements.)
     
  9. ezysquire

    ezysquire Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2010
    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Super early Campus is a pretty good move. Just chop it in.
     
  10. ezzlar

    ezzlar Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,523
    I am in >95% of the games cranking out settlers. At high difficulties you arent probably the top gpp generator anyway in the early game.
     
    Weraptor likes this.
  11. Vizurok

    Vizurok Magyar Soldier

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Messages:
    556
    Location:
    Hungary, Sátoraljaújhely (spell it)
    I think that you have kind of answered your question in your post. I mean, the early game is nothing but a mad rush to get to PP as soon as possible, and doing so means that you should get all inspirations for the early civics. As there are some inspirations that are luck-dependent (Foreign Trade, Political Philosophy), I find it even more imperative that I make sure that I get the inspirations that depend on me.

    Personally, I almost always go Mining-Pottery-Writing that enables me to get a Campus after a Scout-Worker-Settler opening. It should be also noted that it's not that hard to get a +3 Campus that comes with a super handy 3 Era score which is almost essential for me for getting a Classical golden age.
     
  12. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,325
    You are absolutely right. Don't rush Holy Sites to improve your win time, only do it for the flavor of getting a religion. Prioritizing religion will put you behind on the short and medium term scale, and possibly also on the long term scale of the game.
     
  13. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,743
    Gender:
    Male
    More than that, if you spend faith defending (or spreading) your religion, you're not spending it on things that improve your empire more generally.

    Holy Sites are fine and generate a strong currency. Founding a religion is really just for flavour if you're not going for a religious victory.
     
    Karmah likes this.
  14. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,893
    Location:
    Toronto
    The extra inspiration early as mentioned is big, and given my cap is usually strong enough to fit in a district without much trouble before I would finish state workforce, I can usually finish a district in time. Sometimes I don't, more often if I have an envoy in a cultural CS and thus am going faster through culture, or if it turns out that my cap doesn't have a good campus spot.

    I rarely build a holy site first unless if I know I'm going to play a faith game, mostly because most of the time a good holy site location is a good campus location, and getting +3 science is normally way more useful than +3 faith. And I do find that if I have a good campus spot and get it settled, that's so nice to be able to pick off the next bunch of techs to shoot for whatever else I'm looking for.
     
  15. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
    Messages:
    243
    Gender:
    Male
    Before GS I would build an Encampment in my capital just about every game boost as my first district. With the changes in resources it doesn't help that much with getting resource dependent units built anymore. That was playing more MP and just doing it in SP out of habit.

    The 'meet 3 CS' boost for PP is the boost I worry about more.
     
  16. Kwami

    Kwami Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,176
    Founding a religion isn't only for getting a religious victory, though. You also might want a religion to build some of the wonders that require you to have founded a religion. One that comes to mind is Mahabodhi Temple, which awards a Diplo Victory Point.
     
  17. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,321
    Gender:
    Male
    No but I really should. I'm usually worried about district placement/enemies.
     
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    8,759
    If I found an early natural wonder I was often tempted by a holy site. It is cheaper by 1 tech, sooner, it all depend on what is going on. Especially if the CS nearby were religious also. As a currency it holds its own and you get a free follower belief, even divine inspiration can be handy.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  19. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,943
    Location:
    Canada
    Yes I will if it suits the civ, like Egypt along rivers. It's usually a toss-up between State Workforce (tall) and Ealry Empire (wide).
     
  20. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    42
    Lots of good advice. I'm still struggling to fit everything into an early build order. But I figured out a way to "cheat" by playing the Inca, getting extra early production that makes it work much easier.
     

Share This Page