Do You Support State Sponsered, Mandatory Education?

[FearlessLeader2]

I voted no. Education tax money should be used to subsidize home-schooling and voucher systems only. Public schools are utterly worthless, the teacher's unions have seen to that. They should all be converted into prisons to house the criminals they have created.

Give each family a stipend for education that allows one parent to stay at home and educate their children. If neither is capable, let them enter their children into a neighborhood creche school, and their stipend go to support that.

 

[Gothmog]

jpowers and jack said it well, while there are few things economists agree on public funding for education is really a no-brainer. Every prosperous state in the world does it for that reason, the cost benefit analysis is easy to do (as jack says not just economic benefits).

Here in the US the voucher system proposed would never cover the cost of a private education, and would come directly out of the education budget. It is a thinly veiled attack on public education and the separation of church and state, IMO.

Here are some rough budget numbers for 2004 - total budget 1700 billion
- Federal education budget - 60 billion
- Current military (not including the war on terrorism or Iraq) - 460 billion

Also
- Veterans’ benefits alone cost 60 billion
- Interest on military portion of national debt - 280 billion

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by newfangle
I find this statement contradictory. How is society "free" if education is payed for in a very communist-like manor and all children are forced into it in a very fascist-like manor.

Using this simple maxim, then you could conclude that the smallest government, the one with least power and rule, would provide the freest society. This is hardly true. Indeed, taken to its extreme of absolute "liberty", you would even deny the society its existence never mind its freedom.

It would be folly to accept that freedom in the sense of an anarchist society, is any better, or even equal to, the freedom presented in an established, democratic society. Absolute "liberty" or "freedom", can present no freedom when compared to what is on offer from its well civilised and governed counterpart. The rule of less is more is not well applied to this situation, or indeed any concerning government.

It is also folly to claim that this system of enforced, state sponsored education, when supported by the society in which it exists, is anything other than testament to the freedom and democracy the society and its people enjoy.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Whilst I am 100% behind state funded education, I feel that the school system needs a complete overhaul, and that it should be aimed towards helping children develop as indivuals rather than them being forced to learn things they find completely unintresting.

At present, in the UK lots of children become extremely hostile towards schools, because they are forced to do things tehy dislike from a young age. I think that there should be much more choice as to what pupils can study, more teahers need to be hired and more funding given, along with a scaling back of exams, at the moment so many children are put under ridiculus amounts of stress at a young age.

 

[Japanrocks12]

To be honest, I hate school. But such must be done in order to be educated and live a fulfilling life. So when you curse school, then think about the good effects in the long run

 

[Håkon]

I voted yes. Mandatory, state-sponsored education is one of the ways in which we can secure that the people with the best abilities get the jobs which they are qualified for. The alternative, a private education system, would mean that many children would not be able to get this education, thus they would be forced into poor jobs even though they could have the qualities for better jobs if they had been educated.

 

[amadeus]

Maybe if they did it right.

 

[Double Barrel]

Public education serves to create a mass of obedient sheople that make great consumers.

But, public education fails to teach logic and common sense. I would estimate 9 out 10 job applications that we receive here are semi-completed by these products of our education system: they cannot write, read, or do basic math.

Yet another area of society that big government cannot do with any sense of accomplishment and accountability. They should quit brainwashing children with a specific social agenda and start teaching them information that can actually serve to make society a better place.

What better way to eventually control people but to make them mindless clones incapable of critical analysis and historical accuracy.

History is doomed to repeat itself, especially when the mass of people fail to understand history, much less even know it.

 

[bobgote]

Yup, I support it.

I don't think a responsible nation could avoid a public education system, unless you're proposing some other form of national education...? I'm always seeing people here saying how backward other nations are by comparing their literacy rates, I think its a key factor of a civilised nation. And while the public education system isn't perfect, at least kids come out of it being able to read and do basic math and have some form of general/world knowledge.

Home schooling is a complete tragedy and should be avoided at all costs, as one of the main things a school does is teach social interaction (and how many other things does it teach that aren't specifically taught? - if you get my meaning).

Having said that, I'm a product of a private high school education. I got a better education out of it than i would have if i went to a public school. Do I think that should be the case? that's another question entirely

The best solution is quite obviously to let me be in complete control of the public schooling system, but since that isn't going to happen in the near future, the system we have currently is better than none

 

[Hitro]

Yes I am in favour of it and no it is not a violation of rights, despite being mandatory.

Why is that? Well, obviously a human being isn't born in the state he's in after having lived decades (in most cases). Frankly said, it is not pragmatic to extend every human right to children. Being taught is part of the human existence, we aren't born with all the necessary skills and knowledge to survive and also not with a plan to aquire it on our own.
So when a child undeniably needs education and is not likely to search all of it on its own it is correct to provide it with the necessary amount. But in my view that necessary amount doesn't include 13 years of school, rather only the basic education.
Anything beyond that has to be a compromise society makes (may have to make) to ensure its own stability. It makes sense that a society forces its citizens and those who are growing into being that how to live according to its standards. If that is a good thing probably depends alot on those standards...

 

[Global Nexus]

I support it...well, I would. I'd love it my years of schooling taught the concept of "Critical Thinking," and I laugh at all those questions on old grade school worksheets called "Critical Thinking" questions. They're just harder memorization questions. It annoys me that I see most everyone around me taught to believe everything as absolute fact and rarely question it. The ability to think critically, and to question that which is supposedly "established fact" often leads to a much stronger, much more intelligent, much more REASONABLE mind. That's another thing. Logic and reason isn't taught by...anyone. I'm surprised that I'm how I am, considering the complete lack of thinking for one's self. There's no questioning, it's just "this way is right, memorize it." That kind of learning is worth it when it comes to teaching someone to read and write, and do basic maths, but it annoys me that there's NOT been a single drop of support for critical thinking. Logic doesn't seem to be existant in most of the teachers, nor students. And reason...? Yeah, right...not. I'm surprised I can think for myself, sometimes.

...I dragged this a little off topic, but...I WOULD support public education so long as the education taught logic, reason, and critical thinking instead of some of the useless garbage that's being taught today.

 

[Shadylookin]

i support education, but i think the people that are 16 and are just using school as a nap time and only hurt the education of those around them instead of getting one should be given the right to leave school(which they are at least here in Indiana if they get a parent to agree) I believe education is more of a privilage than a right, if there are horrible students they should get removed from school and they can get a job working at mcdonalds for minimum wage for the rest of their life.

 

[Archer 007]

Of course I support public education. We arent living in the dark ages. Public education is the cornerstone of democracy. Without it, the populace is not intellenegne enough to vote.

 

[cgannon64]

What's the other option? An ignorant society?

Newfangle, your views seem to be getting weirder and weirder. No offense.

 

[cgannon64]

BTW Newfangle, in America you have a few options:

1) Secular public school.
2) Religious private school.
3) Secular private school. (I haven't heard of one. Ever.)
4) Homeschooled.
5) Ignorance. (If you make school not mandatory.)

2-4 can often not be used because the parents cannot commit the time or money. 2 can often not be used because the parents disagree with the faith being taught in that school (although I knew a few Athiests who come to private school). And 3 is so rare that I haven't heard of any of them.

If you take away 1, you basically force parents into situations which they cannot or do not wish to comply with.

 

[Speedo]

I absolutely support it. And while you're at it, homeschooling should be discouraged- but if the parents insist on it, test them or do something to make sure they're actually capable of teaching the kid.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by bobgote
Yup, I support it.

I don't think a responsible nation could avoid a public education system, unless you're proposing some other form of national education...? I'm always seeing people here saying how backward other nations are by comparing their literacy rates, I think its a key factor of a civilised nation. And while the public education system isn't perfect, at least kids come out of it being able to read and do basic math and have some form of general/world knowledge.

Not in America they don't. Damnd few Americans can tell you which little blob of color on a map represents the state they live in, let alone which one is Togo and which is Benin.

Originally posted by bobgote
Home schooling is a complete tragedy and should be avoided at all costs, as one of the main things a school does is teach social interaction (and how many other things does it teach that aren't specifically taught? - if you get my meaning).

If you honestly believe this, you are a fool. I know a woman who is home-schooling her daughter, and the girl is twice as smart as I am, and better-read. Home-schooling is tightly regulated (at least it is in CNY) because the teacher's unions are trying to crush it, for fear of losing their over-inflated salaries and tenures.

Originally posted by bobgote
Having said that, I'm a product of a private high school education. I got a better education out of it than i would have if i went to a public school. Do I think that should be the case? that's another question entirely

So do as you say, not as you do?

Originally posted by bobgote
The best solution is quite obviously to let me be in complete control of the public schooling system, but since that isn't going to happen in the near future, the system we have currently is better than none

The current system (again, in the USA) is a flaming bag of dogturds; even stomping it flat will make a mess of your shoe. The best solution is to completely dismantle it, and use the pieces to empower the one method that actually works: home-schooling. Ask the Soviets how good collective farming worked, and why if it worked so good they kept expanding the private plots...then ask yourself why, if the Commies themselves couldn't make communism work, you want to apply its principles and practices to something as utterly crucial as education of the young?

I did 13 years in the state education system, and it was the hardest time I ever did. You may note that I speak of public education in the same parsing and phraseology that an ex-con uses to describe prison life.

The comparison is far more than apt.

EDIT: minor corrections to grammar and spelling, made possible by my self-education via reading everything that wasn't (and isn't, education is a life-long process) nailed down.

 

[newfangle]

Originally posted by cgannon64
What's the other option? An ignorant society?

Newfangle, your views seem to be getting weirder and weirder. No offense.

So you believe that the only way we can educate people is if we force them into it? Now who's weird?

Ignorance is the not the opposite of state sponsered education. That doesn't even begin to make sense.

I am not arguing for homeschooling either. All I am saying is that mandatory, public education is very wrong on a fundamental level, and it does not stimulate children as much as people claim it does. Socialist school systems breed incompetant, unprincipled children incapable of applying basic reason to everyday things. Of course there are exceptions, but many people never choose to think outside the bun.

If you think that having the choice where to send my child to be educated (and paying for it accordingly) is weird, you're in for a quite a shock when you earn your own income.

 

[croxis]

Being an education major in the United States major overhaul needs to be done. Part of the problem is teachers have it hard on many fronts. Bean counting from administration, a-holess that run the teacher unions. On the other side parents have been making teachers do thier [parent] job, parents not raising thier children well; and the system not being able to fire lousy teachers.

We just need a revolution.

 

[tonberry]

In a word, yes of course.

Originally posted by newfangle


So you believe that the only way we can educate people is if we force them into it?

If you think that having the choice where to send my child to be educated (and paying for it accordingly) is weird, you're in for a quite a shock when you earn your own income.

1- Children, yes

2- You can send your child to private school.