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Do you think they will make the AI understand naval warfare?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by JtW, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. JtW

    JtW Prince

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    In Civ5, playing on an archipelago map is like playing 1-2 difficulties lower than on a normal map. Firaxis never managed to make the AI understand how to launch naval invasions, or even how to defend against them.

    Do you think they will fix it for Civ6? (Obviously, I'm asking for pure speculation - we don't know it...)

    TBH, I don't have high hopes that they will. We already see from America's agenda that they think in terms of "continents" - which doesn't really work for archipelago maps. One thing they could do would be to treat smaller landmasses as a part of the nearest continent - and in the absence of a continent, to group archipelagos together and treat them as one.

    Other than that - I don't know.
     
  2. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    With the new system of being able to embed units together, I wonder if we will be able to embed naval units together. It might make naval invasions easier for the AI if they can embed say a transport with a naval ship. It would reduce the amount of path finding that the AI would have to do.
     
  3. Felis Renidens

    Felis Renidens Prince

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    I suppose they'll keep embarkation, melee ships and bombard ships. With the possibility of costal cliffs embarking and disembarking a unit might be more complicated. You may try to combine an amphibious unit with a melee ship - but you can do it in CiV anyway.

    But I will not have high hopes for AI even without the complexity of costal cliffs. It might be somewhat better, it might be more interesting with agendas - I doubt it will be really good. They might get it sometime but I'll have to see it to believe it.
     
  4. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    They seem to have acknowledged many of Civ5 problems (like Tradition - National college path being ideal etc.) so hopefully they know that the Civ5 navy a.i. is very passive.

    I recall that they did better naval invasions in Civ4.

    About melee/ranged ships: I think the Civ 6 Trireme has range 1 ranged attack so maybe all ships are ranged now?
     
  5. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    The big problems with naval AI
    -Naval warfare was heavily ranged
    -ranged units were OP in general
    -computer couldn't use them properly (no move then shoot)

    -ranged units get even more OP with promotions (+1 range, logistics)
    -AI didn't understand how to keep its units alive to get promoted OR how to kill the players highly promoted units


    This is somewhat improved because I remember hearing promotions have been eliminated, instead combat experience helps with military techs (?and civics?)
     
  6. rjg85

    rjg85 Chieftain

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    The AI certainly didn't know how to deal with Submarines or Frigates with range +1 in CiV.

    If you had 2-3 of those you could take out everything because the AI didn't recognise you were in range, so that has to be fixed.

    Grouping 3 naval units into a fleet(?) would help with pathfinding issues.
     
  7. rschissler

    rschissler King

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    In Civ IV it worked pretty well, I would always see the AI with 2-3 frigates/destroyers escorting 3-4 galleons/transports for an invasion. With embarkation, it seems to be less of a priority.
     
  8. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Civ AI has never understood naval warfare. As noted it's heavily ranged.

    On a related note It can barely invade intercontinentally against itself. The Civ5 AI is the only one Ive seen that can routinely invade intercontinentally and expand on their beachhead.
     
  9. Depravo

    Depravo Siring Bastards

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    In Civ5, three bombards with range & logistics promotion + three or four well-promoted melee ships = I can take every coastal city on the map. Only perhaps those with exceptional physical defences (like up a long creek flanked by mountains) might be safe.

    I really hope this changes.
     
  10. x2Madda

    x2Madda Prince

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    No.
    The return to stacks tells me the AI will just zerg like always.
    I expect it will fare better because it can assault districts now but even in Civ5 the AI wasn't very pillage happy.
    I'm fine with the dumb AI anyway. It always garners complaints and I already know the "hidden agenda" is just going to cause more AI to hate your guts anyway so I will be happy to be able to create a skinner-box that just kills AI troops over and over again.

    Lets face it, no matter how good the AI becomes we are just going to make them declare war against each other and flank the losing party from the rear to knock them out of the game. Every AI lives only to die in a game of Civ with Civ4 having the BEST AI worth keeping alive due to the better diplomacy options.

    Melee and ranged navel ships return so i imagine the AI will just suicide its units against our cities until they are all wiped out or they win, just like in civ5.
     
  11. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 King

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    I think we have to see if/how naval warfare changes in Civ VI before we can speculate on AI
     
  12. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    We have no info about naval warfare in Civ6 so far and all the info about AI we have so far is generally marketing blah-blah-blah.
     
  13. JtW

    JtW Prince

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    Which is why I said I was asking for speculation.
     
  14. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Speculation needs something to base on :)
     
  15. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    They are not returnin to stacks, they just did
    [3units of same type]army +support unit

    That does help the AI (zerging) but not in an unlimited amount
    They also eliminated promotions which makes unit survival much less important
     
  16. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Promotions are in. On the video we've seen units with XP meter and one of them having promotion icon above the XP meter.
     
  17. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Too bad, I'd heard unit XP went to military techs now. Promotions were one of the more abuseable parts of the combat system.
     
  18. Rusty Edge

    Rusty Edge Deity

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    Good! I was concerned for a moment.
     
  19. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    We also have a few promotion examples, which are now reportedly unit-specific. From the Tom'sHardware preview:

    "However, the method of promoting each unit changed with the new game. In the past, you could choose from the same set of bonuses for each unit, such as an attack bonus if it attacked from a forest tile or an increased chance of inflicting more damage to enemy cities. With Civilization VI, the types of promotions are different for each unit. For example, scouts might receive a bonus in their movement stats, whereas warriors receive an early advantage against barbarians."
     
  20. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    It depends on the implementation. Civ5 system wasn't great and barely fits corps/armies system.
     

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