Do you think we'll see Lake Baikal this time?

[Lord Lakely]

Interesting enough, unlike the Challenger Deep, the bottom of Lake Baikal hasn't been explored yet. Maybe the game can stick an underwater artifact down there or something

Achievement: EXCALI-GO-BRRRRRRR
Win the game off the Artifact you found on the bottom of Lake Baikal.

 

[Patine]

Achievement: EXCALI-GO-BRRRRRRR
Win the game off the Artifact you found on the bottom of Lake Baikal.

That's a bit much...

 

[Zaarin]

Achievement: EXCALI-GO-BRRRRRRR
Win the game off the Artifact you found on the bottom of Lake Baikal.

"Listen, strange women lying in Lake Baikal distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

 

[Patine]

"Listen, strange women lying in Lake Baikal distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

That lake is almost on the other side of Eurasia from Baikal.

 

[Lord Lakely]

"Listen, strange women lying in Lake Baikal distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

You cannot expect to make surpreme executive jibes just because a crust-bottomed patine threw a complaint at ya.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That lake is almost on the other side of Eurasia from Baikal.

But they do say that Lake Baikal is really, really deep

And the bottom hasn't been explored

I smell a connection . . .

- And basing your system of government on strange women can't be that much stranger than the Electoral College, can it?

 

[Patine]

- And basing your system of government on strange women can't be that much stranger than the Electoral College, can it?

Although the Papacy and the Holy Roman Empire beat the Americans to that notion by centuries, but for them, it also came out of strange compromise.

 

[GeneralZift]

Well, natural wonders, I just think they're neat

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Well, natural wonders, I just think they're neat

But just for a last comment on Natural Wonders, and despite the so-far-revealed very nice map terrain they've shown for Civ VII, I sort of wish they had spent even more effort on the 'regular' terrain rather than the sporadic tiles of Wonders.

Remember in Civ V where each continent had different colored foliage? Yeah, I thought that was a nice touch.
Why not extend that to regular terrain?

Mountains that range from the steep-sided pillars of China to the Dolomite rocks of Europe to the hangng valleys and mesas of the (western) USA
'Plains' that range from tall grass prairies to balka-ed steppes to variations by latitude from semi-tropic to near-taiga.

We seem to be getting some nice distinctions in plant cover, ground water, etc. but I'd love to see more distinctive terrain graphics attached to some of them.

If nothing else, just to remind everyone that central Asia is not the same as central North America, that the hill country of the American Dakotas (the Black Hills) is not the same as the loess hills of north-central China . . .

 

[gdr_willter]

But just for a last comment on Natural Wonders, and despite the so-far-revealed very nice map terrain they've shown for Civ VII, I sort of wish they had spent even more effort on the 'regular' terrain rather than the sporadic tiles of Wonders.

Remember in Civ V where each continent had different colored foliage? Yeah, I thought that was a nice touch.
Why not extend that to regular terrain?

Mountains that range from the steep-sided pillars of China to the Dolomite rocks of Europe to the hangng valleys and mesas of the (western) USA
'Plains' that range from tall grass prairies to balka-ed steppes to variations by latitude from semi-tropic to near-taiga.

We seem to be getting some nice distinctions in plant cover, ground water, etc. but I'd love to see more distinctive terrain graphics attached to some of them.

If nothing else, just to remind everyone that central Asia is not the same as central North America, that the hill country of the American Dakotas (the Black Hills) is not the same as the loess hills of north-central China . . .

I want to say, fancy feature without function is cool but cannot be the high priority in developing process and budget.

 

[stealth_nsk]

"Listen, strange women lying in Lake Baikal distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

Well, Putin made his journey in bathyscaphe to the Baikal bottom in 2009. So, I'm afraid it really is... (that's the only logical explanation I have for the current Russian system of government)

 

[stealth_nsk]

I want to say, fancy feature without function is cool but cannot be the high priority in developing process and budget.

Game fun consists of many parts. There should be some number of fancy features with limited function for great immersion.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Speaking of which, I don't mind seeing more resource-based natural wonders, such as the Cassiterides, the Lebanese Cedar Forest, the Laurion Silver Mines, the Aethalia Iron Mines, the Taghaza Salt Mines, the Weald, the Iwami Ginzan Silver Mines, the Bihar Saltpeter Fields, and the Witwatersrand. Natural richness is also part of the "wonder" that has attracted human settlement throughout history.

 

[gdr_willter]

Game fun consists of many parts. There should be some number of fancy features with limited function for great immersion.

I agreed it's cool, but I can play games without it. Contrastively, I'll get some trouble when the game have those fancy features instead of gameplay features. So my point is "give me well-made game first, than add some fancy features".

 

[Daigotsu Max]

Further to what one poster said above, it'd be kinda cool if you could see little seals on its shore.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

They said LEAST favourite...

I still love it

 

[Zaarin]

Cassiterides

There's a decently high probability the Cassiterides were the British Isles, which are a tad big for a natural wonder IMO. If they were not the British Isles as a whole, they may have been a legend or simply a misunderstanding given the distance involved.

the Lebanese Cedar Forest

IMO a natural wonder should be beautiful first and foremost. Mines are not beautiful, but the Lebanese Cedar Forests/Cedars of God would certainly qualify. So much so that the Sumerians hundreds of miles to the east conceived of the Lebanese cedar forests as their picture of the afterlife.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I want to say, fancy feature without function is cool but cannot be the high priority in developing process and budget.

Well, not to (slightly) derail the Thread from Baikal specifically, but terr ain features could provide Unique resources or better sources for ordinary resources.
Examples:

The above-posted Lebanese Cedars could be a particularly abundant source of Monumental Timber with numerous uses in monument, temple, or ship construction in Antiquity and Exploration Ages.

The loess hills of China provided a source for very fine wind-blown soil which also had a metal content, so made the perfect raw material for Porcelain once they had kilns hot enough - and Porcelain was a major Luxury and trade item for centuries and a major Unique Bonus for China.

The Black Hills provide a 'rain shadow' which results in extremely lush and rich grazing grounds for all kinds of herded and hunted beasts. Thus, a major source of Resources in Antiquity. That abundance also gave them Religious significance - it's why the Lakota called them "The Heart of Everything That Is."

Point is, neither the loess hills nor the Black Hills are particularly distinctive graphically (unless you carve some presidents on them), so they are not great candidates for Natural Wonders, But, they could be candidates for Special Resources - add a little flair of extra graphic interest to otherwise non-noteworthy tiles, and either more or unique Resource to the gamer.

The fact that exactly what kind of Special resource you get would be almost completely random (unless you are playing a TSL game) should make those Resources not game-changing, but simply game-improving or 'nice to have' except in extreme situations - as, IRL, the Cedars being virtually the only Monumental Timber within reach for many of the Mediterranean/Middle Eastern states of Antiquity, which dramatically increased their importance as a Trade item to them.

 

[gdr_willter]

Well, not to (slightly) derail the Thread from Baikal specifically, but terr ain features could provide Unique resources or better sources for ordinary resources.
Examples:

The above-posted Lebanese Cedars could be a particularly abundant source of Monumental Timber with numerous uses in monument, temple, or ship construction in Antiquity and Exploration Ages.

The loess hills of China provided a source for very fine wind-blown soil which also had a metal content, so made the perfect raw material for Porcelain once they had kilns hot enough - and Porcelain was a major Luxury and trade item for centuries and a major Unique Bonus for China.

The Black Hills provide a 'rain shadow' which results in extremely lush and rich grazing grounds for all kinds of herded and hunted beasts. Thus, a major source of Resources in Antiquity. That abundance also gave them Religious significance - it's why the Lakota called them "The Heart of Everything That Is."

Point is, neither the loess hills nor the Black Hills are particularly distinctive graphically (unless you carve some presidents on them), so they are not great candidates for Natural Wonders, But, they could be candidates for Special Resources - add a little flair of extra graphic interest to otherwise non-noteworthy tiles, and either more or unique Resource to the gamer.

The fact that exactly what kind of Special resource you get would be almost completely random (unless you are playing a TSL game) should make those Resources not game-changing, but simply game-improving or 'nice to have' except in extreme situations - as, IRL, the Cedars being virtually the only Monumental Timber within reach for many of the Mediterranean/Middle Eastern states of Antiquity, which dramatically increased their importance as a Trade item to them.

But it seems way too much complicated for the game like Civilization. Terrain system is one of the most critical factor for the 4X games, so it need to be intuitive enough to read it and make a plan according to it.

I think Civ 7 did the thing like it to the playable limit, by adding various vegetated and wet terrain features. It is complicated but systematic, so I can accept it. However, I don't want to see several types of vegetated plains.

 

[JaeChunDaeSung]

There are many a lakes worth acknowledging. I know Baikal for its history as the deepest, but there are others too at least worth mentioning, like say Biwa in Japan or the Heaven Lake neark Baekdu Mountain on the border of Korea and China.