DoC Alternate History modmod Brainstorming Thread

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by mrrandomplayer, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    I have good news and bad news. The good news is that in a week or two I will be able to use a new computer WITH INTERNET! The bad news is that right now, I'm stuck using my old, dingy computer without Internet, and I can't seem to successfully install Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 on my old, dingy computer without Internet, so my progress will be much slower. However, the silver lining is that I can work on adding more things.

    What would you want me to work on first out of these(I will get to all of them eventually):
    -an 1000 AD Alternate Scenario
    -a 1700 AD Alternate Scenario
    -More civ resurrections (like Persia as Iran)

    If people want the third option, I will list my current ideas there.
     
  2. baseballpie

    baseballpie Deity

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    Option 3
     
  3. yurisusuki

    yurisusuki Hope, Faith and love

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  4. GreekAnalyzer

    GreekAnalyzer Back from the Dead

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    3 please.
     
  5. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    Okay, since most of you wanted 3, here are my current thoughts.

    A blank slot means that I am open to adding a civ there but don't know what to add.

    DoAltHist Rebirth Slots

    Egypt- Can't have any
    Babylon- Mamluks (Medieval Egypt)
    -Spawn dates: 900-1300, spawns if Arabia is dead or unstable
    -UP: Power of the Nile: +1 Food and Hammers on the Nile River
    -UU: Mamluk: Replaces Knight. Same but only costs 2 pop to whip
    -UB: Dervish: an Islamic Monestary with 1 Scientist slot that expires at Mass Media
    -UHV: -Build 6 Dervishes and 1 Mosque by 1100 AD
    -Secure Open Borders with China, Japan, or Korea by 1200 AD
    -Allow no Mongol or Seljuk cities in the Middle East in 1300 AD
    China- None
    Greece-
    India- Maratha? (Maybe another civ slot should be added to represent more Indian civs)
    Phoenicia- Israel (Judaism would need to be added back as a minor religion)
    -Spawn dates: 1945-2020, spawns if a colonial power owns Jerusalem
    -UP: Power of Espionage: +100% Espionage in all cities with Judaism
    -UU: Merkava: requires no oil and can be drafted
    -UB: Jewish Synogauge: Replaces Islamic Mosque, same as regular Cathedral except requires 1 city, Judaism, and gives +50% Espionage as well as culture
    -UHV: -Spend 2000 espionage by 1970 AD
    -Have the most powerful army in the Middle East in 1980 AD
    -Allow no Islamic civs in the Middle East in 2000 AD (hint: nukes)
    Persia- Iran
    Rome- Venice
    -Spawn dates: 700-1000, spawns if Rome is dead and Byzantium is Shaky or worse and the human player is not Italy
    -UP: Power of Merchant Republic: Starts with Republic, Naval Dominance, and Mercantilism enabled
    -UU: Galeass: Replaces Caravel. Requires Guilds. 5 Str, 5 Movement, 3 Cargo Space, Cannot enter Ocean until Astronomy, cannot enter Rival territory
    -UB: Arsenal: Replaces Harbor, +2 Exp to Naval units with regular Harbor bonus
    -UHV: -Control Constantinople by 1204 AD
    -Have the world's strongest navy in 1500 AD
    -Settle 2 Great Merchants in Venice and have 10,000 gold in 1800
    Ethiopia-
    Tamils- Vijayanagar? (Maybe Maratha if not India)
    Korea- None
    Maya- Colombia (regrettably)
    Byzantines- Armenia???? (If Byzantines don't spawn, not as a respawn)
    Japan- None
    Vikings- Sweden (would need to collapse more often to respawn later)
    -Spawn dates: 1300-1500, spawns if Vikings are dead
    -UP: Power of Tactics: All land Units start with Formation
    -UU: Karolin: Replaces Rifleman, starts with March
    -UB: Bank that gives +40% Gold, +10% commerce instead of +50% gold
    -UHV: -Be the first to discover Military Science and Military Tradition
    -Control the Baltic Sea in 1650 AD
    -Build the Nobel Prize by 1890 AD
    Arabia- Oman?
    Tibet- Maratha???(if India is not)
    Khmer- Vietnam?
    Indonesia-
    Moors- Barbary Pirates
    -Spawn dates: 1683-1800, spawns if Moors are dead and Ottomans (or other controlling civs) are unstable
    -UP: The Power of Piracy: blockading ports that you are at peace with gives triple gold.
    -UU: Corsair: Replaces Privateer. 9 Str, hidden nationality. Spawn randomly in the Mediterranean from 1550-1800.
    -UB: Bagnio - the "slave prisons", where those who were abducted would be held in wait for ransom or selling. A dungeon (=jail) replacement that gives free citizen specialists.
    -UHV:
    -Sink 30 Ships by 1750
    -Have the world's most powerful navy in 1800
    -Make 5000 gold off of piracy and the slave trade
    Spain- None
    France- None
    England- None
    HRE- Austria
    Russia- Could spawn earlier as Kiev or Novgorod, then respawn later as Muscovy
    Mali- Songhai???
    Poland- Probably none
    Portugal- None
    Inca- Peru???
    Italy- Probably none
    Mongols- Manchus
    Aztecs- Mexico
    Mughals- Could spawn earlier as a Central Asian Turkic civilization, then respawn later as the Mughals
    Ottomans-
    Thai- None
    Congo- South Africa (if Leoreth doesn't add a Boer civ)
    Dutch- None
    Prussia (modern Germany)- None
    USA- None
    Argentina- None
    Brazil- None

    Unrepresented respawn civs: CSA?
     
  6. GreekAnalyzer

    GreekAnalyzer Back from the Dead

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    The Israeli UU could be called the Merkava, the MBT of Israel. The Power of Formation should also give the formation promotion, as the Karolins were organized specifically to defend aganist cavalry. Just my 2 cents.
     
  7. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    Personally, I don't like UB that replaces religious buildings. It needs to replace all religion equivalents. Otherwise, you are dependent on 1 religion to build your UB.
    And the Monastery will be obselete early. But I assume the Mamluk UB will be an exception to that.

    I think the UP is overpowered. The player can easily exploit it. (Think of Bagdad, Indus valley) You can limit the UP to only the Nile, but no other rivers.

    UHV 1: Impossible. You need a esp. production of 200/turn. Likely, you only have 1 city (Jerusalem) or maybe 3 cities if you are lucky. Consider the amount of esp. buildings you have (only the courthouse), it's impossible, even if you manage to get an Great Spy in time.
    UHV 2: Impossible. You have only 35 turns to build as much units as the other civs produces in 200+ turns. You also have to build some buildings to be able to get the first UHV.
    UHV 3: Nearly impossible. You don't have enough production to build nukes.

    UU: I would rename it to Galeass.
    UB: 1 food on water is really overpowered. (If you mean it on top of the normal bonus. Making it +2 in total. Otherwise it's fine ofcourse) I think exp bonus and maybe a ship production bonus is enough.
    I think an early drydock would be even better. (Requires guilds, no unhealth)

    Spawn date: 1523 is a very appropriate starting date.
    UP: The formation promotion is more suitable than combat1.
    UU: Replace the formation promotion with combat1. (to match with the UP)
    (In my 2nd UU modcomp, I gave the Carolin a 25% bonus vs. gun units, like the original Redcoat)
    UB: Don't remove the 50% gold bonus. Removing it would make it worse. Just add the 15% commerce on top of it. (or 10% if it's overpowered)
    (My 2nd UB gives it a free merchant)

    From RFCE++:


    Dutch - Respawn as South Africa.
     
  8. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    Good point. The UP will only apply to the Nile. The UB will only be Islamic but it won't expire until Mass Media.

    1. Will change to 2000 ESP
    2. Makes more sense to be most powerful army in the Middle East (they will also start with a large stack)
    3. I will make Atatürk more likely to appear (maybe always if Israel is alive) so Turkey will be secular and Israel won't have to worry. After that, it is just Iran, sometimes Egypt, and sometimes Arabia.

    1. Good idea.
    2. The food bonus is regular Harbor bonus, it doesn't stack. I think an early Drydock would be a little overpowered since Venice starts with Naval dominance.


    1. Will change to 1500-1600. My Swedish history is pretty patchy at best.
    2. Yeah, I'll change that.
    3. Nah, I think that March is powerful enough (intended to counter Russia's UP)
    4. Maybe 40% gold, 10% commerce? I don't want it to be really overpowered.

    1. I'm still going to keep the spawn date similar, I might move it a bit earlier.
    2. The UP seems good.
    3. The Barbary pirates will probably start with Military Science so they can build Corsairs, but if they spawned earlier, I would use that.
    4. Much better UB idea.
    5. My UHV idea:
    -Sink 30 ships by 1750
    -Have the world's most powerful navy in 1800
    -Make 5000 gold off of piracy and the slave trade
    I really don't like 'control X cities in Y by Z' or 'control region X by Y' goals very much.

    Using Congo's slot makes more sense IMO.

    Thanks for the feedback, I will edit the changes in!
     
  9. Sanguivorant

    Sanguivorant Submitter

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    I say a better third UHV for Israel is to control a few cities in Egypt.
     
  10. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Deity

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    I just downloaded the mod but my DOC is still at V. 1.11 do you need version 1.12 to play this mod ? And does it come with features of 1.12 ?
     
  11. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    It comes with the old features of SVN 626 I think, but the DLL doesn't work. However, the only thing that it means right now is that you can't play as a civilization that spawns later than 500 AD from the 500 AD scenario and some interface is strange.
     
  12. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Deity

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    If we are making an alternate history mod, why not change the victory conditions too ? Why stick to the old ones ?

    I'd say change the Indian victory condition to 1) Build Angkor Wat and Borobodur by 1100 AD, 2) Control all of South Asia, and vassalize/conquer Persia and South East Asia *( Khmer, Indonesia ) by 1000 AD, 3) Spread Buddhism to 40% by 1200 .
     
  13. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Deity

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    That beside, I've started playing the 500 AD scenario, funny enough it starts at 440 BC ?! Is this supposed to happen or is it a glitch because I didn't install the latest SVN. Also Dunhuang and Kashgar get to unrealistically huge sizes because those cottages nearby provide 234 food ?!?
     
  14. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    I'm pretty sure I didn't intend either. Both glitches are probably from the bad DLL, but the Kashgar glitch might be part of the overflow glitch

    Also, I think your India UHV idea is interesting, but ultimately, I probably won't change any UHVs,
    1. Because they are already well balanced
    2. There is usually an ahistorical goal there anyway
    3. Few people play for UHV
    4. I am too lazy/busy to code them in.
     
  15. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    I know I want to get to Venice:D, but I'll get to that second. What respawn civ do you guys want me to code in first?
     
  16. baseballpie

    baseballpie Deity

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    Sweeeeeeedeeeeeeeeen.
     
  17. only sky

    only sky Chieftain

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    Hello !
    I have a idea for DoC, what do you think of it?

    If we can divide the world civ as eastern and western, if a eastern civ first discover America, then all eastern civs can have a research rate increases. rest of the civ lag behind and build "easternization" and vice versa.
    or if a new world civ discovered the old world before the old world discover them, then all the old world civ has a resaerch rate drop, and the new old civ receive free units to conquer the old world. then the old world civ can build "Americanization" to catch up with the new world.
    and it allowed the greatest freedom to rewrite history for human players.
     
  18. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    I hate to bump this after so long, but recently I practiced some world-building and created a fully-fleshed out alt-history map that if you'd be interested, we can work on for one of the scenarios.



    http://slumberparties.deviantart.com/#/art/Pulp-Steampunk-Western-439218020?hf=1

    If you visit the page proper, you can read an additional description I've provided for the scenario.
    It's the late 15th century but the tech level is equivalent to a late 19th/early 20th century setting.
    But I have put quite a bit of thought and research into this and feel it's a good fit for an alt-history scenario for your modmod.
    We can omit the steampunk elements, but overall I'd love to work on this with you.
     
  19. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    I'm glad the thread got necro'ed as I felt that it died prematurely. I'm having to deal with some major bugs in the program (I'll be much more wary about adding a civ, but Venice was worth it). However, that map is awesome, and with a few minor abridges, the map would be awesome in DoC. I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks.
     
  20. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    Actually, since this a separate modmod from DoC, is this actually standalone?

    As in can we have both chocolate DoC and this installed at the same time?

    If so, it might be a fun idea to include scenario specific units like the gyrocopters and tesla soldiers.
     

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