DOC - China UHV

[jammerculture]

Has anyone had any success with china's UHV using Leoreth's mod?
I have tried many times over the last week or so and have not been able to do it. Under normal RFC its no problem but with Leoreth's mod its a whole other animal.

The first issue is just getting to code of laws first in order to get Taoism. Many times either babylon or Greece would get it through the Oracle before I could even get close. If that doesn't happen its a flat out race anyways.

My first attempts I attempted to play the map like I would any other. I teched pottery, animal husbandry, and bronzeworking before actually going for COL. Bad idea. I then went through a couple of games were I attempted to discover the optimal tech path to get it in time and not be in the dumps economically. I discovered that teching wheel/pottery/writing then building libraries in my two cities while going after bronzeworking/and then alphabet worked best. This way I could run cottages and scientists in my two cities for commerce. Two important step I found were to cottage over all resources except for the wheat at Beijing and to use my generated GS for an academy and not to bulb mathematics as I originally did. I would tech mathematics as my newly created spy traveled towards India and Persia to trade for the COL prereqs. This is the only way I was able to consistently get COL before my rivals, usually around turn 120-130.

My next idea was to send the spy to Greece to trade for the prereqs for Music while teching towards Paper for my taoist academies. My reasoning was that I could use the academies to help me tech to Music. I have not yet attempted to go the other way (music before paper) but I can see no logical reason to do so. Usually around this time two events happen that kill my game.

One is the inevitable DOW by Japan. I have done everything possible to stop this and even had Jimmu up to pleased with me once but he still attacks. The other event is the plague. This one is even more game breaking as it takes my research pumping cities and turns them into shells of their former glory. By the time I am able to recover, I usually only have 30 or so turns left to get my goal, I usually have four more cities left to settle, 4 more temples left to build and usually haven't started researching music yet.

Anyway, for those of you still reading, is there something I'm missing?

 

[Brew]

toaism is founded with calendar in Leoreth's mod, as I think in regular RFC

 

[jammerculture]

no man, it's code of laws. Calendar would be way easier

I guess no-one can help from the lack of responses, starting to think it might need balancing.....

 

[Power_of_Beer]

Somewhere on the last 2 pages of the main thread I posted a savegame of my China game; the UHV was not checked but I had the buildings in 990AD. You might take a look at it, the city placement was well enough for the UHV.
Sorry if I dont remember the exact Techpath, but I definetly got the basic worker techs, Sailing, Bronze Working, Writing, Masonry and then went to CoL via Priesthood. Guess I was lucky that nobody Oracle'd it. Traded for Iron Working and Monotheism in Europe (Keep a warrior in southern Italy). Yes they rip you off but it doesn't matter. Then Calendar of course, along with many (!) workers to improve your land fast. After that I went straight for Music and then Paper via Civil Service. Remember that there is no need for techs like Metal Casting, Monarchy or even Currency.
Whip and chop if its necessary for the buildings.

 

[jammerculture]

Hmm, a few questions.

How good are you at this game when it comes to micro-managing and optimizing? My own attempts I had a feeling that optimizing the whip and chopping might be something I need to do to improve. Would you consider yourself relatively skilled in these aspects of the game and do you think they might have helped you along? If so can you give me some pointers?

Did you research to alphabet and trade for the religious techs you need for Col or did you research them yourself and go for alphabet later?

How did you manage to build your cities so early? In my game in order to get a sizeable enough work force, military units to fend off barbs and japan and keep my economy from tanking I could never really get more then three cities going until late. This is probably a major part of my problem.

How could you produce 7 settlers, all the workers you need and still keep up in growth, early enough that you cities could be this mature at this point in the game?


Thanks

 

[Power_of_Beer]

Well usually I'm a lazy player and let the governor make specialists, especially with larger empires and when I don't need a certain GP.
But city placement is very important in RFC and I spend a lot of time there. Whipping is good in BtS and vital in RFC; you remove unhappy population, and unproductive cities get their buildings in no time, so don't hesitate to use it.

Alphabet I think I didn't research until somewhen in 600AD (when the techs become much cheaper); Polytheism and Priesthood I researched myself.

I stayed with 5 cities for a long time; since the other 3 only have to build a temple, you can build them rather late (those 3 cities where Seoul, and 2 in the chinese mountains).
Growth wasn't a problem at all (get fishing boats up fast), I always try to squeeze in a military unit+worker between buildings. 2 Axemen block the mountains, 2x4 spearmen for Horsemen in the north, 3 spearmen in the south, and Japan is luckily totaly incompetent in warfare (they always sent 1 catapult+1axemen...)

Remember to get courthouses up fast after CoL (again whip+chop), and hire 2 scientists to bulb some techs (mainly mathematics). Check the trade advisor often.

And of course there are little things like: When you gor Music, take literature instead of Drama, because its cheaper (you save like 2 or 3 turns of research).
Can't remember more things any more, maybe I play another game these days

 

[onedreamer]

I suggest you mod Taoism back to Calendar. RFC is based on delicate and tested balances, changing them without considering all side effects and without proper testing is bad. The "conflict of interest" that has been created between Babylon and China over Code of Laws is IMO detrimental for the gameplay.

 

[jammerculture]

I'm not so sure about it needing balancing anymore. After taking some of of Power of Beer's advice I was able to get much much closer. Also after the fifteen or so attempts I have only had someone beat me to CoL, three times, and once was through the Oracle. I find that most games Babylon is destroyed before they would be getting to CoL anyways.

I am now convinced that the UHV is doable just very very difficult.

 

[onedreamer]

You were able, but this setup I suspect causes the AI China to be left without a single religion pretty often.

 

[jammerculture]

I usually end up founding Taoism and have Buddhism and Hinduism in my cities from India pretty regularly (90%).

Still haven't been able to accomplish the UHV though......

oh, AI. nvm. Is China historically considered a very religious civ?