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  1. EdmundIronside

    EdmundIronside Prince

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  2. EdmundIronside

    EdmundIronside Prince

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    This thread is designed for people to provide feedback on UHVs in DOC (and some of the civ mods).
    This way it can be checked if all the UHVs are possible, or if any are too easy.
     
    1SDAN and Publicola like this.
  3. Gianmarco Silvestro

    Gianmarco Silvestro Chieftain

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    I don’t know if it is useful.
    I play mainly Marathon/Monarch Rome and it is almost impossible to achieve 3rd UHV because of China UP.
    If China doesn’t get destroyed in the early game, it quickly becomes too fast in techs research and it gets impossible to discover the required technologies before them.
     
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  4. Orbii

    Orbii Warlord

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    Some preliminary feedback on the structure of the thread:
    • Is there any reason why the table is posted as screenshots rather than a direct link to the spreadsheet?
    • The table should also specify what scenario the UHV was played on. China on the 3000BC start is entirely different from the 600AD.
    • How is "Difficulty" meant to be measured? Is it objective or subjective? youtien's idea of hard is entirely different than mine.
    • The table should also have a column for the revision that the UHV was played on.
    Some anecdotal feedback on UHV difficulty for the few civs I played on the second latest revision (the one just prior to the wonders update).

    Spoiler UHV Feedback :

    Holy Roman Empire/Austria - Monarch/Normal/600AD

    Ridiculously easy. Probably the easiest non-puzzle UHV in the entire game. Only challenge is conquering Rome and Jerusalem in time. Made easier with Turkic conquerors rather than Seljuqs, since one can game a civ a lot easier than barbs. UHV 3 can be done before UHV 2. Won around 1350AD with minimal difficulty.

    There's an old thread somewhere that talked about improving this UHV, mainly UHV3. One suggestion is to need 5 Great Artists, the National Gallery, a Palace, and the National Theatre in Vienna in 1850AD or some arbitrary late game date, so as to make one play as the Austrian rump state sandwiched between two much stronger neighbors (Prussia and Ottomans). Probably the best suggestion to making things better.

    America/Prussia - Monarch/Normal/1700AD

    Moderately challenging and perfectly fine in how they are designed. Lumped these together because they have the same pattern -- a very difficult opening rush to compete one UHV, a much easier but still pressing need to compete another UHV, and a trivial but perfectly acceptable goal. For America, it's doing Manifest Destiny. I usually accomplish this using the starting Army and copious S/L ASAP so the Euros don't get machine guns. The wonders goal is then just a tech race, and the oil one a "screw around and do anything" UHV. I will fully admit to never finishing this UHV because it's basically a formality after finishing UHV2.

    For Prussia, the tech goal is actually the issue, because of how much better France and Britain are at researching industrial techs. I found the best way to beat this UHV is to immediately conquer Amsterdam, then collapse the UK with a 18th century Operation Sealion, then murder France with my veteran Army: removing all possible tech rivals. From there the game is a formality: all of Western Europe in one civs hands means none of the other goals are an issue. Much easier UHV to do in 600AD due to differences in tech pace.

    Byzantium - Paragon/Normal/600AD

    RNG dependant but easy. I will fully admit that I have played this start a ridiculous number of times, but the only real challenge is making sure you get 3 Great Merchants by about 900AD, which makes the UHV essentially difficulty-independent. There are many ways around the Turkic conquerors to finish UHV3, to which I can elaborate on if needed. Perfectly fine and well designed for what it is.

    However, I think how this UHV is accomplished could be improved. There are basically no UHVs, aside from merjin's Vietnam and maybe Thailand and the Congo, that really capture that idea of winning while being surrounded and slammed into a pulp by bigger, stronger, better neighbors. There's an old joke somewhere about how a historically accurate Byzantium UHV would read: 1) Lose 70% of your territory by 640AD; 2) Lose your capital by 1205AD; 3) Collapse by 1450AD. While that's obviously facetious, I think it gets at how long Byzantium survived while being absolutely demolished. I think designing Byzantium to reflect this reality would be a much more enjoyable game than what it is now, which is basically very similar to most other civs: get big, stay big, win.

    My suggestion would be to skewer Byzantiums modifiers, and from there the challenges write themselves. Make it so it feels like you're climbing an insurmountable hill. The new Seljuqs invasions are definitely a step in the right direction for this: they're brutal, come in waves, and require a lot of prep if one wants to meet the hidden UHV 2.5 - not losing a single middle Eastern city so Ottomans don't spawn and UHV3 becomes trivial.



    There's a few other games I've played, but I'll do the write ups when I can access my computer. Off memory, it includes: Vietnam, UK, Italy, Poland, Russia, Japan, Mayans, Atlantis, Turks.

    .
     
  5. Bautos42

    Bautos42 Warlord

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    I guess this just refers to the difficulty setting you are playing on.

    it might be a good idea to separate the table into the main civs and those added by modmods. This would probably increase readability for the people that are supposed to profit from this table.
     
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  6. EdmundIronside

    EdmundIronside Prince

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    Okay, have tried to implement all the suggestions given.
     
  7. borhap88

    borhap88 Prince

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    I'd like to know if there's anybody who achieved 1st Italian UHV 600AD start with a harder than Monarch level.
     
  8. HighFunctioningAlcoholic

    HighFunctioningAlcoholic Chieftain

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  9. TJDowling

    TJDowling Prince

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    I can't contribute because I usually play Heir and still cheat in 100% of games.

    EDIT: That said, my most recent game was Mughals 600AD DoC on Regent and I didn't cheat. I narrowly failed UHV1 (Build 3 Grand Mosques by 1500AD). It is quite challenging for me as it requires you quickly conquer/convert all cities in India including Tamil cities in order to build enough regular mosques as pre-requisite to the Grand Mosques. Also, it seems a strong likelihood that the Tamils respawn before you're finished which makes them a formidable enemy.

    The other problem is that once you have conquered all these cities you are quite overextended and I reloaded a few times from various points but even with a Golden Age, religious unity, compatible/contemporary civics, and only a little bit of unhappiness I was unable to prevent my collapse.

    Possibly conquering Persian cities would be a simpler route but I haven't tried that and they are outside of core/historic area so I assume stability would remain an issue.

    The second UHV is easy as long as you streamline your research. The third is moderate, you need to build lots of cultural buildings but the Mughal UP helps. The only challenge is balancing the need for building military units and cultural buildings.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  10. EdmundIronside

    EdmundIronside Prince

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    Column added and spreadsheet updated.
     
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  11. Logoncal

    Logoncal Prince

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    Here's mine for India:

    3000BC start (Obviously. India is collapsed on 600AD start and 1700AD is beyond the deadline)
    Difficulty: Regent.
    Speed: Marathon

    It's hard. Very hard.

    The first UHV is simple, just get two Shrines. The last two however, are painful. India is filled with barbarians and to beat the last two UHV, you HAVE to kill the Tamils. There's no other way. The worst part is when you manage to get 10-11 cities but you cant build 20 temples in time and you will only realize that at the last 5 turns.

    The last one can also be a big slap in the face: A plague can happen in the end of the deadline and you know the Angkor Wat? The wonder? Yeah, build that. And speaking of it, i managed to get the last UHV by getting the Khmer capitulating to me, out of nowhere. So yeah, India is hard and quite RNG dependant. I raged alot on this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
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  12. Logoncal

    Logoncal Prince

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    Got a new one, thanks to @Orbii and @Enyavar for some tips

    France

    Start: 600 AD
    Speed: Marathon
    Difficulty: Regent

    UHV1: Get 25000 Culture (75000 in marathon) in Paris by 1700 AD
    UHV2: Control or Vassalize 40% of Europe and North America in 1800 AD
    UHV3: Build the Notre Dame, Versailles, Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower by 1900 AD

    Difficulty: I nearly went insane trying to do this, but actually... it's not that hard.

    The first UHV is just silly. You need 50% legendary on Paris. By 1700 AD. The ammount of GA bomb and cheesing to be able to get this in time is just ridiculous.
    The second UHV was actually doable after @Orbii told me that you can try taking cities early in Europe, which it actually worked! I had no contests in the North American colonization and i was able to settle my "New France".
    The last one is the easiest one, which is just casually building wonders.

    Despite me going insane trying to get this Historical Victory, it's not that difficult. You just need to build the infrastructure of your cities and especially colonies and you don't need to be too much ridiculous when it comes to getting the Great Artists. With a City Square, Salon and the Leaning Tower plus 3 artists, Paris can easly create 1 GA per 15-30 turns. And you only need 7 to do the first Goal.

    The problem, obviously, comes to the second goal. You HAVE to plan early to do it, even if it has a very long deadline. But still, once you got it under control, you got it. France can easily mass a ridiculous army and with some fine cheese, you can capitulate ANYONE against you. Be it Prussia, England, Austria, Spain. Anyone.

    It's a moderately difficult UHV, unlike India where even if you plan ahead you will still win by a close call.
     

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