Doctor who helped locate Osama given 33 years jail term

[druidravi]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/24/w...-bin-laden-given-jail-term-official-says.html

Spoiler :

A Pakistani doctor who helped the Central Intelligence Agency pin down Osama bin Laden’s location under the cover of a vaccination drive was convicted on Wednesday of treason and sentenced to 33 years in prison, a senior official in Pakistan said.

The doctor was never asked to spy on Pakistan,” said a senior American official with knowledge of counterterrorism operations against Al Qaeda in Pakistan, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to talk candidly about the sentencing. “He was asked only to help locate Al Qaeda terrorists, who threaten Pakistan and the U.S. He helped save Pakistani and American lives.”


Dr. Afridi, 48, was detained by Pakistan’s military intelligence agency near Peshawar in the weeks after Bin Laden’s death. A judicial commission in Pakistan investigating the circumstances leading to his death recommended in October that Dr. Afridi be charged with high treason.

So how should citizens who spy for foreign (friendly?) intelligence agencies be treated. As per the article he was not asked to spy on Pakistan, only confirm Osama's location .He however did not share this info with the Pakistani government.

 

[Silurian]

He was spying for a foreign power so he is guilty as charged.

Hopefully the US will swap him for a Pakistani spy they catch
.

 

[Synobun]

I am not sure why Pakistan is still considered an ally when they pull stuff like this off.

 

[Silurian]

I am not sure why Pakistan is still considered an ally when they pull stuff like this off.

So do you think Jonathan Pollard should be set free.

From Haaretz

Pollard, 49, was a civilian intelligence analyst for the U.S. Navy when, in the mid-1980s, he copied and gave to his Israeli handlers enough classified documents to fill a walk-in closet. He was given a life sentence.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...han-pollard-returns-to-prison-in-u-s-1.424455

 

[Deviate]

Yeah, I don't see why anyone is upset with this.

 

[holy king]

no, he thinks israel should break it's alliance with the usa. wait, they cant for strategic reasons...

oh, i see.

 

[Synobun]

So do you think Jonathan Pollard should be set free.

From Haaretz



http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...han-pollard-returns-to-prison-in-u-s-1.424455

I dunno, it seems to me that there's a big difference between providing intel on a wanted international war criminal and simply giving all your data to another faction.

 

[Deviate]

...which lead to their territory being violated...

I have no doubt in my mind that if the situation were reversed the result would be no different.

 

[Synobun]

...which lead to their territory being violated...

Perhaps if they weren't protecting a war criminal their territory would not have been violated, hmm?

 

[druidravi]

So do you think Jonathan Pollard should be set free.

From Haaretz



http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...han-pollard-returns-to-prison-in-u-s-1.424455

The difference is Pollard spied on his host country and compromised its secrets. All the doctor did was check on Osama residence to collect his dna sample. He did not comromise any Pakistani interests , unless finding Osama counts as one.

 

[Deviate]

Perhaps if they weren't protecting a war criminal their territory would not have been violated, hmm?

Osama wasn't a war criminal. Pakistan wasn't protecting him. (Before people lose their minds, my only issue is categorization.)

If China decides that some random Chinese person hiding in America needs to be killed do you really think they have the right to invade our territory?

 

[Synobun]

Osama wasn't a war criminal. Pakistan wasn't protecting him. (Before people lose their minds, my only issue is categorization.)

If China decides that some random Chinese person hiding in America needs to be killed do you really think they have the right to invade our territory?

Wait, whaaaaat?

Here is a list from 2008 of the world's top 10 most wanted criminals:

2008
Osama Bin Laden
Joaquín Guzmán Loera
Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov
Dawood Ibrahim Kaskar
Matteo Messina Denaro
Félicien Kabuga
Pedro Antonio Marin
Joseph Kony
James "Whitey" Bulger
Omid Tahvili

I think you may find a familiar name in there, right there in slot number one.

 

[Silurian]

I dunno, it seems to me that there's a big difference between providing intel on a wanted international war criminal and simply giving all your data to another faction.

There is a difference which is why I hope he gets exchanged.

But who should decide what a countries citizens can do.
Should Israel have the right to decide that US citizens can spy against the US with impunity?

This person has obviously been made an example of, in an effort to stop others following his example.

Imagine if it had just been Osama family there and a number of Pakistani intelligence agents were killed while watching the place; would that make a difference. The doctor would not have known.
.

 

[Synobun]

There is a difference which is why I hope he gets exchanged.

But who should decide what a countries citizens can do.
Should Israel have the right to decide that US citizens can spy against the US with impunity?

This person has obviously been made an example of, in an effort to stop others following his example.

Imagine if it had just been Osama family there and a number of Pakistani intelligence agents were killed while watching the place; would that make a difference. The doctor would not have known.
.

The doctor confirmed Osama's presence and that is it. He didn't spill Pakistani secrets at any point unless the presence of Osama was one of their secrets, which simply sheds a much darker light on them. 33 years and a treason sentence for someone that provided the location of the number one wanted criminal across the globe is neither treasonous or deserving of such a long sentence.

 

[Flying Pig]

Wait, whaaaaat?

Here is a list from 2008 of the world's top 10 most wanted criminals:

2008
Osama Bin Laden
Joaquín Guzmán Loera
Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov
Dawood Ibrahim Kaskar
Matteo Messina Denaro
Félicien Kabuga
Pedro Antonio Marin
Joseph Kony
James "Whitey" Bulger
Omid Tahvili

I think you may find a familiar name in there, right there in slot number one.

I think Deviate's actually right. Once we start admitting exceptions to the rules like that, it becomes very difficult to see where to draw the line. To many people, Osama was a hero, and there are plenty of people out there whom foreign governments see as terrorists - the Dalai Lama, for example - when we rather respect them. If we say what amounts to 'breaking the rules is OK when it's the good guys doing it', before long they start to lose their authority.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The doctor confirmed Osama's presence and that is it. He didn't spill Pakistani secrets at any point unless the presence of Osama was one of their secrets, which simply sheds a much darker light on them. 33 years and a treason sentence for someone that provided the location of the number one wanted criminal across the globe is neither treasonous or deserving of such a long sentence.

I think your statement "sheds a much darker light on them" is the reason why the doctor was found guilty of treason. He greatly embarrassed his own country by deliberately keeping a covert US operation a secret from his government.

And I doubt someone found guilty of a similar crime in the US would have been treated much differently. Just look at how Bradley Manning is being treated.

 

[Synobun]

I think Deviate's actually right. Once we start admitting exceptions to the rules like that, it becomes very difficult to see where to draw the line. To many people, Osama was a hero, and there are plenty of people out there whom foreign governments see as terrorists - the Dalai Lama, for example - when we rather respect them. If we say what amounts to 'breaking the rules is OK when it's the good guys doing it', before long they start to lose their authority.

I would normally agree with this, but Osama was a wanted criminal internationally. Global opinion overpowers the opinion of a handful of terrorist sponsored states. If he had actually committed an act of treason against Pakistan I would understand it, but all he did was do the right thing.

And he got 33 years for that.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Not telling his own government about an operation which was clearly going to embarrass them is hardly doing the "right thing" in the eyes of his own country.

Is it worth 33 years in prison? Probably not. But it doesn't surprise me that greatly given how Draconian the sentences usually are for similar acts.

I think not informing the Pakistani government is by far the biggest blunder Obama has made.

 

[downtown]

I don't think Pakistan is out of their rights to issue a pretty harsh sentence on the doctor...but if we have any allusions about getting folks to help us with intelligence operations in the future (which we need), we better start some sort of negotiation to try and do something for this guy.

And I think Israel would have been in their rights to try and work something out for Pollard.

 

[Synobun]

Not telling his own government about an operation which was clearly going to embarrass them is hardly doing the "right thing" in the eyes of his own country.

Is it worth 33 years in prison? Probably not. But it doesn't surprise me that greatly given how Draconian the sentences usually are for similar acts.

I'm not sure if Pakistan could have been trusted with the capturing/murder of Osama had they been given the location of Osama. But I guess that is a whole different topic.