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Does AI cheat with money?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Arksa, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Arksa

    Arksa Warlord

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    Sweden has -110 gold per turn. Yet never goes to negative gold and rocks like 400 gold each turn no matter what...They've ben having this income for many turns now and they still got gold each turn around 100 - 500.



    what's the point of GPT if they cant just cheat their way back?
     
  2. Miravlix

    Miravlix King

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    I don't understand your reaction...

    Why the hell would you assume the AI is cheating and whine about it, instead of asking about something you clearly have no clue about in a less aggressive manner?
    Moderator Action: Don't troll around.
     
  3. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    Uh, I don't think your gold can go negative either. Instead, you're forced to sell buildings which gives you enough money to put you back in the black for a while. Which could be the case here as well.
     
  4. Randall_Flagg

    Randall_Flagg The Evil One

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    There seems to be some bugs on displaying the Income and Gold Reserves of the AI. This seems to be a dispaly bug only.
     
  5. tat501

    tat501 Warlord

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    They bully CS's as well. They bully them a lot for money - so they may have a negative income - but they have a large army and they use it to threaten city states for gold.
     
  6. Elz Majesto

    Elz Majesto Warlord

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    Yea I agree, there is something very FISHY with the AI and its Money.

    In my game last night (King, Standard, Standard) as Maria, I built both Colossus and Petra, had 3 cities and the number #2 army adn #1 navy. All Trade routes were going for gold.
    Anyway, America, turned into a classic G+K runaway on some bull$$%@! He had an army 2X my size and voted for the "Standing Army Tax". I went from 300+GPT to 270ish GPT, meanwhile America went from 220Gpt to 260gpt, and his military might number did not change in the demographic screen! Furthermore towards the later part of the game he was making 300+ GPT on a wide empire.
    To add further insult to injury, America went wide with 8 cities and 4 puppets (12 total cities) and still had a 9-10% tech lead over me! At 12 cities that is a 60% cost increase in beakers, and besides his cap, the rest of his cities were >25. I got so frustrated I DOWed him and edged out with a Diplo Victory, but still I never seen this in any of my games thus far in BNW. It made it more exciting, but still if I wanted to play with handicaps against me, I will go up to Immortal or Deity, not something I would expect on King.
     
  7. docbud

    docbud Emperor

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    I didn't see in the OP's post any whining or aggressive manner...
     
  8. Soronery

    Soronery Prince

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    People seriously need to stop saying the AI "cheats." The AI does not cheat. Ever.
     
  9. Jaymax

    Jaymax Chieftain

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    Well if you want to get technical, (unless this has been changed) the AI can place cities within 4 hexes of each other, but you cannot.
     
  10. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    Depends on the definition of "cheating", obviously, but the AI can work around on some "official" rules of the game so...

    Of course, some of the cheating is a good thing. For example, free techs on harder difficulty settings are more like a handicap to help the AI against very skilled humans.
     
  11. rodrigoq

    rodrigoq Warlord

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    Play diety.. I'm pretty sure the AI grants itself cash randomly. I expect it, its diety. It's why I watch the diplo screen like a hawk, waiting to see which civ suddenly gets a large sum of gold so I can trade for it. The AI also doesn't need to explore, they already know where the uranium and coal are hiden, and the oil.. If you've ever wondered why a civ would place its 3rd city in an area with no food, loads of useless desert tiles, and 50% mountains...before getting out of classical era... wait till you can see oil/uranium..

    AI isn't human, w/o boosts and bonuses Diety AI would be the same as cheiftain.
     
  12. snoochems

    snoochems Prince

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    Either it is playing by different rules, or it is cheating.

    I've seen the ai with massive deficits and always seem to be in the black, and never has to sell buildings or units.


    Or there is some bugs with how stuff is displayed or calculated. I swear happiness can also get bunged up. I played a game where i had over 100 happiness... And i just couldnt see how it was possible.
     
  13. rodrigoq

    rodrigoq Warlord

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    AI gets alot of happiness bonuses, scaled back a bit too much IMO on diety. in G&K I remember having a starting happiness of 9 by default, AI had 38? or something. By late game they would have 200+. But they get some huge modifiers in diety. I also think the AI on higher levels don't suffer penalties for negative income. I razed the Aztecs down from 18 cities one game, and they had 0 gold, -70ish gpt. Never saw a unit get disbanded, and I had their capital surrounded so I'd get a sweet peace deal. Seems they can sit in the red infinitely, or the game just gives them a new gpt. Thats diety though, I don't know about lower levels.
     
  14. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    Isn't playing by different rules exactly what people mean by cheating?
     
  15. Hulking Lummox

    Hulking Lummox Warlord

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    My experience is that yes, the AI gets gold to buffer against taking negative science. In my game recently Dido was getting pretty powerful in the world congress with too many city state friends so I did what anybody would do: I embargoed them and then subsequently banned city state trade. They were at over -200gpt but hovering at like 112 gold for countless turns. It annoyed me because I felt that after the amount of effort I went to in order to make those proposals pass that the least the game could do is lie to me and show them at 0 gold and negative gpt even if they were not losing science behind the scenes.

    I used the WC properly and was not given the whole package of shattering the carthaginians. This whole thing is not to mention that they were in a revolutionary wave for the last 75ish turns of the game and only ever lost 1 city (to the other user of freedom ideology - and a very late comer to it at that). Still not sure how I feel about these things.
     
  16. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    The only thing that happen if you have a negative gpt and don't have any in the stash to make up for it, is that your science will go down with the same amount.
    This is a turn based game and money will be calculated at the start of the turn. So for example if you have a stash of 0 gold and a negative gpt of -10, then your science is lowered with 10 for this turn. If I later in the same turn sell a luxury to a friend for 240 gold and hit end turn, everybody else will see that I have 240 gold in the stash and a negative gpt of -10.

    Edit: I should add that I have both seen it on a LP and also done it myself - sponsored a war (with honour), having negative gpt (a lot) but yet still manage to have some gold at the end of the turn.
     
  17. BorisTheCat

    BorisTheCat Chieftain

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    I'm more bothered by the opposite problem: AI sitting on 4000 gold with 200gpt coming in, and doing absolutely NOTHING with it. Not buying city states because I'm about to win diplo, not buying units because I'm besieging all its cities... Nope, quite happy to let it sit there, gathering dust.

    I can totally understand that it sucks that you can embargo the AI and have absolutely nothing to show for the effort. But let's face it, the AI is pretty damn dumb. Make it play strictly by the same rules as the human, and you might as well be playing against the clock.
     
  18. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    I've heard earlier that the AI does not build wonders but get it randomly. I'm guessing that changed in G&K where you can be informed what the other civ is building in their cities. However, even on Prince, they apparently get free SPs without worrying their culture output, otherwise they can't possibly have that score in "The Most Progressive Leaders" or whatever.
     
  19. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

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    They have cheaper SP costs and tech costs, cheaper road maintenance, unit maintenance (extremely), unhappiness reductions, happiness boosts, and, on the highest difficulties, bonus starting units (workers and settlers) and technologies.

    If the A.I.s weren't idiots, you'd be beyond laughably outmatched.
     
  20. Hulking Lummox

    Hulking Lummox Warlord

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    @DemonMaster

    Not sure if you were providing counterpoint to what I said, but the problem I have personally seen is that the AI gold reserve was not being affected over multiple turns of negative gold per turn. In other words 112 gold -200gpt. Next turn. 112 gold -200gpt. Next turn, and so on. If there is a bug in that information being correctly displayed as an earlier poster mentioned then it will be nice to see that fixed.
     

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