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Does anyone ever skip religion completely?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Toshiro126, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    Does anyone out there ever just not choose a religion until Free Religion comes along? I was searching through the forums to see if anyone ever discussed this. I saw some comments, but no other longer articles on the subject.

    On the one hand, it would seem you wouldn't have to worry as much about getting attacked by certain civs, like Isabella and Saladin, that really hate you if you have a different religion. But then again, without Organized Religion in the early game, it might be tough without the 25% faster building speed for buildings or wonders...and of course the additional happiness bonus. And not being able to use Theocracy or Pacifism would also have drawbacks...

    Just curious if there were any other pluses or minuses that people had found by not claiming a religion during the game, and if it crippled their ability to keep up with the other civs....I'm also curious if people have tried to not have religion on prince or higher levels....
     
  2. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

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    If I have a lot of happy resources then I will often not choose a religion on emperor+. First of all, I'm not going to found any of them so the shrine is out of the question unless I capture one from an AI. Second, it's too important to be able to trade techs with every AI in order to keep up, so having low relations with even 2 civs is costly. And third, I don't have to spend resources spreading the religion around or waste anarchy turns changing to the religion and changing religious civics.
     
  3. HectorSpector

    HectorSpector Chieftain

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    I'm on a continents map just now where it's 500 ad and the other continent has all the religions apart from Islam (not founded yet). There's 4 civs on my continent for goodness sake.
     
  4. carl corey

    carl corey Deity

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    I've played up to prince (included) and don't think there was a game in which I totally skipped religion. It just seems easier to make a friend by addopting his religion and going together to war with the common enemy than to be at the "cautious"/"pleased" limit all the time. AIs will ask you to stop trading or go to war with their enemies anyway. Refusing that might actually make you the primary target. EVERYONE's primary target. No real use in that. And if you do accept those demands, why not reinforce the friendship with the (sometimes huge) religious bonus?
     
  5. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    Originally posted by Shillen:
    That's the main reason why I asked the question really. Just trying to figure the best way to use my time and resources. And until you mentioned happiness resoucrs in your post, I forgot about them as a way to decrease unhappiness. I keep falling into the trap of thinking religion is the main way to keep people happy, which isn't really true in Civ. Ifyou have Hereditary Rule enabled, that will take care of some of the unhappiness, but then again, I wouldn't want to keep that civic the whole game I think.... Of course there also colloseums.

    Do temples still help cure unhappiness even if you're a pagan?
     
  6. drkodos

    drkodos Emperor

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    Playing up to Monarch level.


    I often skip religions. It depends on a number of factors, primarilly what Civ I am playing, what the starting techs are, what other Civs are in the game, and what the goals of the game being played are.

    I have won games on Monarch where I never had a religion, although several may have been spread to some of my cities, but I never declare state religion, and aim for Free Religion.

    Of course, I have had games where I have created Five headed Hydras as well. Ghandi begs for religious tactics and strategies. Kublai Khan does not.
     
  7. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    Quite frequently at high difficulty levels I'll skip religion altogether, simple because I cannot afford to make the enemies that switching to a state religion would create.
     
  8. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    Interesting posts from people. I would think you would need the religion benefits more on the upper levels. Of course, I'm still having trouble beating monarch so what do I know! :lol:
     
  9. Dorkus

    Dorkus Chieftain

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    I have never adopted a religion in a successful deity level game. You simply cannot afford to get invaded at that difficulty level. The AI outproduces you by a huge margin.
     
  10. Alexfrog

    Alexfrog Warlord

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    Often dont get religion on Emperor/Immortal because you cant research them in time (at least the early ones), and you cant afford mig negative penalties.

    If the AIs near you spread you a religion, you could go to it )especially if anyone bordering you uses it).
     
  11. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    The only reason I choose a state religion is for the 25% production bonus or the 100% birth rate.
     
  12. weasel77066

    weasel77066 Prince

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    I had to skip it one time due to deperate need of a military. Embarrassingly enough, that game was warlord level when I was learning to play. I did capture the buddist holy city though, later in the game and conveniently changed to buddism
     
  13. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    I never found a religion, if I'm creative I don't even bother to research mysticism. The techs lead to nothing compared to the great benefits of Bronze Working, Iron Working and pottery.
     
  14. drkodos

    drkodos Emperor

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    I am not so sure I would make the claim that religious techs lead to nothing, even compared to the benefits of those other techs.


    - One needs them if they want to go for any type of Slingshot with the Oracle.
    - A lot a later game techs need some component techs from the religious branch. Polytheism is quite important to get Great Library.

    Researching some religious techs is not the same thing as getting some religion, and one need not found a religion to become a religious civ or to claim a state religion. I often research through the religious tech path, but do not do so looking to grab a religion.

    Also, grabbing CoL on the Way to a CS sling usually dumps Confucianism into ones lap, but again, does not force one's hand into switching to being religious.

    There is a wide array of grays between the polemic black & white ends to which many people assert & cling.

    I hear ya with that, but it does require one to build monasteries and then missionaries to spread religion to those cities you wish to grab that bonus on. Sometimes the hammers spent to spread the religion can end up being more hammers than one gets through the 25% bonus (depending on how long one runs those particular civics), and it does take awya from producing other untis and building during that time that one is building their religious infrastructure.
     
  15. Bradlius

    Bradlius Warlord

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    One thing I have to say is, if you decide to skip religion, find some other route to happiness! :)
    I played a game recently where I skipped or delayed most of the religious techs, only to find myself alone and isolated on a fairly large continent. If you are isolated and you don't found your own religion, you can't choose a state religion, build temples, etc.
    By the time I had nine cities, my citizens were unhappy, my treasury was bare, my city costs were atrocious, and I had no way out because my research into Theater was crawling along too. Fortunately, I was "discovered" in about 1500, other civs spread their religion to me, and I could pacify my populace and tech-trade my way to a space-race victory. But it was scary there for a couple of centuries...
     
  16. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

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    Two words: Hereditary rule.
     
  17. Stolen Rutters

    Stolen Rutters Deity

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    My last two games on monarch I didn't switch to a religion. I rarely found any of the religions before Confucianism and I don't want the worst enemy tag unless I choose it. I stopped missionary spam awhile ago in favor of more combat units to take nearby shrines so I haven't had a dominant religion for a few games now. I actually like to get as many religions spread in my stable border cities as possible for the culture, so that is the limit of my missionary efforts. Picking a religion will eliminate any contribution from all the rest of the religions you have.

    Near my vassals for instance, +3 culture from three religions helps early border culture immensely, since that border isn't likely to move unless your vassal gets wiped out.
     
  18. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    Won't that get expensive though, if you have a lot of cities?

    Of course, being in constant revolt with unhappy citizens and no money is probably no walk in the park either.... :crazyeye:
     
  19. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    Of course, it goes without saying that if you just want the 25% production bonus or if you are already in the right civic, you can just build missionaries without having to build any monasteries. Usually, I just need to focus on my core cities. For example, if my city without a state religion can generate 100 hammers per turn. A 25% production bonus would mean 25 more hammers per turn. Since a missionary costs only 40 hammers, I can easily make up for the production lost within less than 2 turns.
     
  20. Paeanblack

    Paeanblack Prince

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    How does one get a city with 100 pre-bonus hammers per turn?
     

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