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Does anyone use the +%25 vs siege weapons promotion?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by sabo, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Sorry, I usually forget the existence of Vanilla since all I've played is BtS and that's what most people play here :) In that case I'd definitely go for Combat over Drill, unless you're fighting Arty's vs Longbows or similarly ridiculous tech situation. In such a case Drill would make you a bit more likely to stay at high health :)
     
  2. Bostock

    Bostock King

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    I'll sometimes go Charge simply because there was a stray lone enemy catapult left running around and I'm less worried about "mispromoting" a unit in my SoD than about losing its momentum (yet I still want to get that cat before it can collateral me).
     
  3. fenrus

    fenrus Chieftain

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    Killing siege faster means you will suffer less collateral damage since the siege unit is in combat for fewer rounds.

    I actually like to give Charge to my Super Medic if I have the promotion room for it. It lowers the priority of it defending and Siege units can't kill you anyways. Though, only available to Melee (not Gunpowder).
     
  4. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Sadly, no. Killing the attacking siege faster doesn't result in reduced collateral damage. In fact, you can attack with a 0.1/5 strength Catapult and it will always make as much collateral as a CR3 5/5 strength one. Only things that affect collateral are base strength, barrage promotions and defender (not the top one, but the ones receiving collateral) drill promotions. This also means that Cats always do more collateral than Trebs, since their base strength is higher.
     
  5. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    Defending siege units do collateral damage?! I have never noticed this.

    I really doubt they do, I just played a huge war campaign and they never damaged my stack when on defense.


    Sorry, I misread the post :p

    I used charge a lot in my last war campaign; It's very useful in certain situations.
     
  6. Wlauzon

    Wlauzon Prince

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    Speakng of which - it seems like the AI almost never builds machine guns. :confused:
     
  7. viper_1986_1986

    viper_1986_1986 Warlord

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    This is wrong :)

    There are 2 different aspects of the game with the word "flanking"
    There is the promotion, "flanking" which gives you more of a % to withdraw from a lost fight.
    Then there is just "flank attack" in which IF your unit lives a fight (kills a unit or withdraws) he has a % at "flanking" and hurting seige units... i believe the unit stats state that units like house

    After playing a game last night with my brother it appear his horse archer would hurt up to 5 cats 1 str EACH, each time he attacked and lived vs my spearmen.
    I cant seem to find anyplace that shows how much flank attacks hurt....

    The flanking promotion IS AMAZING though, it can give you 50% of withdrawl even if you got .01% odds of winning a fight, so you got a 50/50 to hurt the seige, even kill them.

    edit:
    On topic, i dont really do it unless someone has seige and my units are weaker, like they have cats and i have spearmen. 4 vs 5 i would lose. I wouldnt die but my spearman would hit .1str while his cat would stay full, and do damage to all my units.
    Having that +25% would make the fight be 5 vs 5 thus the cat would only have 50% chance at retreat. So only 50/50 of hurting all my units as well :)
     
  8. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    I killed a catapult in a single attack with a cuirasser once.
     
  9. Tristan_C

    Tristan_C Emperor

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    Probably a decent option for a protective leader. Defending against an AI SoD, rather than being pressed to attack it, is more palatable with Protective. Since so many protective leader's units are Drilled (making Drill 2 really common), you can use a Charge promo to force one of your mounts or infantry up the queue up to be the choice defender against siege units. Then all the drill 2+'s can sit behind him and shrug the collateral damage. Used in this manner it can sort of blunt the entire siege element of an AI army. Put it on an elephant for best results.

    In my latest game I was attacked "from behind" in newly-conquered territory. While I successfully defended a city against an AI SoD, the collateral was pretty rough and one of my Drill 2+'s was wasted by being the choice defender against the siege units. Meanwhile, I had guys in town who were sitting around taking full collateral who probably could have taken Charge and beat the crap out of the siege instead.
     
  10. Mr Irrelevant

    Mr Irrelevant Chieftain

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    i tend to give it to a couple of horsey units when I'm planning an attack. I don't attach them to a SoD, just have them roaming about trying to catch the AI seige weapons coming to get me. I try to have about 4 or 5 of them along with 4 or 5 melee promoted units to take out any protectors of the seige units. Find it helps with cutting the attacks on my SoDs.
     
  11. 3 EMS

    3 EMS King

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    viper 1986 1986:
    Thanks. Its the "flank attack" that i really like. When I see the "flanking" promotion I wonder if that won't increase the "flank attack". It just gives a bigger withdrawel chance though. I do use that sometimes but for attack I prefer more firepower. I"m starting to give flanking to horsey and ship units. Pair them up and look around for stragglers to pick off.
     
  12. viper_1986_1986

    viper_1986_1986 Warlord

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    I used to always believe combat was the BEST promotion but over all it depends

    I know that if its spearmen vs spearman 4 vs 4 and one with combat II and the other with first strike and combat I the first strike will win.
    So if the str are even or you are already way more likely to win its better to go with first strike.

    In the case of flanking or combat, i am torn. If the player has a lot of seiege and i just wanna kill those i will go for flanking as even if i wont hurt the defending unit i may withdrawl and hurt the seige. But if the odds in in the normal battle are even, i will go combat I and hope that i KILL the unit thus doing flanking attack too.

    So far since i learned this it helps me A LOT vs mass seiege of mass stacks with no seige....
     

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