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[R&F] Does bread and circuses project count from Entertainment districts placment or city center?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Cyon, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. Cyon

    Cyon Cosmonaut

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    The nine tile radius from the project is it the placement of the district or the city center that is counted? Ie should you place the district as close to your enemies or should it be as close to your other cities for the zoo bonus instead? Does the project work well in practice for flipping cities in an offensive way or is it more only for defensive loyalty?
     
  2. Cagarustus

    Cagarustus Prince

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    I believe it’s from the entertainment district.

    I have used the bread and circuses to flip cities but only if they’re just above the threshold, usually when I’m in a golden age and they’re in a dark age.
     
  3. Zenstrive

    Zenstrive Ocean King

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    breads and circuses is strange. It disrupts loyalty on other cities when it's running, but only add 20 loyalty to YOUR city. What for? At the time you put down an entertainment district, the city is already very loyal to you.
    What if it can add loyalty for you to other cities at the radius, 10% reduced each tile away.
     
  4. Karmah

    Karmah Emperor Supporter

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    I think there was a term on 'extra loyalty' in the pressure formula that was retro engineered by fellow civ fanatics recently so that could be it.
     
  5. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Emperor

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    Bread and Circuses is similar to a golden age, it increase your loyalty per citizen, so the pressure come from the city since it's just normal population loyalty boosted.
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Capturing a city with an entertainment complex is a great thing. As a bread and circus project does not get stronger based on production it is perfectly fine to run from a city that has pretty much 0 production. The city may only be 50% loyal to you but the loyalty from the project doubles its pressure, it does not double any GA bonus though.
    If you can chop in population not only will it strengthen the city but also its pressure... this pressure also helps any other newly taken city nearby.
    If you can chop in the project you can get +20 loyalty at the end of it to help you out but personally I would rather take the flip n pillage route.

    Naturally someone attacking your cities can do the same thing with your own EC's
     
    blackbutterfly likes this.
  7. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    Does anyone think B&C would be more useful if it could be run in any city with an established Governor rather than requiring an Entertainment District?

    Or would that be OP?
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    definately OP although you would probably end up with all governors cancelling each other out I guess
     
  9. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    @Victoria Well, that’s refreshingly unequivocal!

    What’s your thinking? I’d thought it wouldn’t be too bad given you can only have a limited number of Governors.

    But thinking some more, I’m thinking you’re maybe right.

    It would potentially making holding onto a newly captured city much more easy maybe too easy. Perhaps you could limit it so you can’t run the project while the city is still occupied, but still makes holding the city after the war is over trivially easy?

    And I think having the ability could also mean you don’t use Governors for anything else, which would make them even less interesting than they already are.

    I can’t say B&C has really inspired me to build more Entertainment Complexes. Is there really any use case for them beyond getting the colosseum or just novelty / roleplaying? Building them just to flip a nearby city seems pretty daft.

    Or is the idea to build them in already loyal cities, build out new cities near that core city, and then run the project in your core city to help keep your fringe cities loyal? That seems unnecessary.
     
  10. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    But at least it's a purpose and use for them, so I think the developers did a good job in adding a creative extra use for Entertainment Centers associated with the bread & circus project. Situational, yes, but that's okay, as it's secondary to the district's core purpose. I like tools that can be used in multiple ways, even if they're useful for that secondary purpose only in unusual circumstances. (Heck, to be honest, I probably like them more when they have obscure uses, as then it makes using them that way seem more fun.)
     
  11. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I like the changes to ECs. It's a bit odd B&C is tied to that district - it feels like a project every city should be able to run (hence my thought about Governors), but yeah, I like the changes. The tier 3 buildings are also much more interesting.

    But still. I'd like to understand what use they are, if any. If they're basically just for role play or edge cases that's fine.
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yes, building EC to flip cities is beyond efficiency and well into role play realms.

    My loyalty guide is just about done but in essence the population pressure is the most powerful modifier and to get an enemy city to be at -20 (flip in 5) you need to have a pressure ratio of 3:1.
    If your cities had even pops and distances......
    Your golden age would give you 1.5:1
    Their dark age and your golden makes it 3:1
    Add a B&C to that and you are 5:1
    ....
    So settle a couple of cities near a dark civ, chop in food and slot governors and you could start converting their entire civ. The ability for a governor to jump to a converted city and start a B&C immediately is OP... deffo. Just take their biggest city and the rest will fall.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  13. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I think its a pretty key post myself, clarifies loyalty a lot
     
    agonistes likes this.
  15. King Rad

    King Rad Warlord

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    While I don't play 'optimally,' I have found that I build more ECs now in cities where I have large population, but the happiness is coming from amenities. This allows the amenities to be used in those conquered/flipped cities to shore up their happiness and therefore their loyalty. This with the B&C has been enough to at times allow me to hold on to the recently acquired city until I get an EC up in it, and then sometimes launch a B&C there to both continue to provide loyalty and to help with other cities as they flip or are taken.
     
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