Does removing victory conditions change the AI's gameplay?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by IslandBlue, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. IslandBlue

    IslandBlue Chieftain

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    If during setup I go to advanced setup and uncheck the Diplomatic, Cultural, Time, and Science victories, and leave only Domination as a winnable victory type, will the AI play differently? Will I be faced with a bunch of civs that are more aggressive than usual since they can't win a Science or Diplomatic victory? Or will they still play the game as though all victory conditions were still possible? Brave New World version. Thanks
     
  2. johnny_rudeboy

    johnny_rudeboy Warlord

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    I have been wondering that my self. I hope some one knows the answer.
     
  3. Haumea

    Haumea Chieftain

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    While I by no means have a full or complete answer, let alone evidence or anything marginally useful beyond my own words, I would hazard to say yes. I have experimented with enabling different VCs in my games, and if you have, say, only domination as a possibility, as far as I remember that was a pretty bloody game of Civ.
     
  4. McSaucy4418

    McSaucy4418 Chieftain

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    From my understanding of the AI there is a strategy component which outlines the grand strategy for a particular "player". Obviously a key part of that is determining which VC to pursue and I would assume that one of the many factors the AI takes into consideration is what VC are actually available. With that being said I almost always play with the SV off and have never seen an AI build a space ship part.
     
  5. IslandBlue

    IslandBlue Chieftain

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    Thanks for your response but I feel like there's too much assuming and guessing in your post. However you've given me an idea: It would be interesting if someone played a game where every victory condition was turned off except for the Science victory. Then we could see, based on our familiarity with the AI's previous play/personalities, how much, if any, of a change the AI put into it's play style. If we set up a game like this and Montezuma was still regular old Montezuma, or the Swedes, Austrians, or Babylonians all still pretty much operated in ways we've come to expect from them, then we'd have some empirical evidence to go off of. I started this thread b/c I'm curious if we as a community really know how much the AI can adjust it's own standard play due to substantially altered gaming conditions/demands.
     
  6. Firesmacker

    Firesmacker Chieftain

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    I'm pretty sure that the AI "knows" what VCs are obtainable and plans accordingly.

    For example: If I only have Science and Domination checked, the AI couldn't care less (or they're grateful) if I propose science funding at the WC. If I have those two VCs plus Cultural checked and I make the same proposal, at least half the AI civs will be pissed.

    Also, with Cultural checked, I get bombarded with open borders requests up to and including offering me lump sums and GPT to open up my borders. Otherwise, those requests are very sporadic.

    Really, the only time I have seen the AI have no idea what to do is when I only have Domination checked. Then it seems like it can't make up its mind.:confused:
     
  7. johnny_rudeboy

    johnny_rudeboy Warlord

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    If you only have DV checked then would not the civs also worry about the safety of their own capital since they will or at least should know, that every other civ wants to conquer it?

    I once played a game on a medium map with only DV checked. I hand picked Monty, Khan, the Assyrians, Boudicca, Denmark and Attila. I played as the Zulu and even do the game started out well enough with Monty, my next door neighbour DoW me after 20 turns, two turns after a DoF between us. The game really never kicked off like I would have hoped. There was of course a lot of troops moving around but no one really went on the offensive other then Monty, who lost his capital to me rather quickly. I think the civs was to afraid to be attacked that they played defensively. Could be wrong but leaving another VC like time or something else is perhaps better.
     
  8. IslandBlue

    IslandBlue Chieftain

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    Do you remember what level you were playing? In my experience they will definitely attack first on levels 7 and 8.
     
  9. johnny_rudeboy

    johnny_rudeboy Warlord

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    Prince or :king: most likely. I have just started to play at emperor.
     
  10. TheWaffleTaco

    TheWaffleTaco Chieftain

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    Yes i believe this to be a fact. Played a match a month or so ago on prince in which i only checked domination to see what would happen. Before medieval, i had gone to war with all of my neighbors (William, Elizabeth, Maria) various times. They backstabbed eachother and me repeatedly as well. So yes i would think so.
     
  11. johnny_rudeboy

    johnny_rudeboy Warlord

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    That is exactly the kind of game I was looking for. :(

    I will try it again once the fall patch (or winter patch...) for mac comes out.
     
  12. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    I guess an easy way to check would be to set up a duel map against Gandhi or another early game pacifist and only allow domination VC.
     
  13. IslandBlue

    IslandBlue Chieftain

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    I don't think a duel map would provide much evidence. Also, I've been watching a YouTube Let's Play series of a guy playing Poland on Diety level, Pangea, against 7 other civs, with all victory conditions possible. The first guy to attack him, unprovoked too, was Gandhi. This was BNW.
     
  14. DudewiththeFood

    DudewiththeFood King

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    Gandhi, Harun, Ramesses and Haile Selassie have the lowest war flavours. Try a domination game with only them. Then try a diplomatic victory with Askia, Montezuma and Genghis because they have the highest conquest flavours. See what happens.
     
  15. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Firaxis has mentioned an AI civ's "Grand Strategy" in all of their patch notes. I've always wondered if that becomes a problem? Let's say a map and geopolitical situation make it nearly impossible for anyone to win via [fill-in-the-blank]. If that is one's Grand Strategy, then that civ has been effectively neutered in the game? How much can it change off and try to win by another mean?

    Anecdotally, I have seen very strong AI civs in a game try for one victory, then abruptly switch to another emphasis and so on. I think that's one of the problems - if it had stuck with their original winning ways, it would have been a stronger opponent.

    I would say this would be a good test.

    But that brings up another point. What if conditions are very favorable for Ethiopia to win via Domination? Are they prevented from doing so because of some artificial constraints put on them? Why should AI opponents be limited?
     
  16. Plumfairy

    Plumfairy Prince

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    I'm pretty sure that if you have SV turned off, all players are unable to build the Apollo Program, so nobody even has the option to build spaceship parts.
     
  17. IslandBlue

    IslandBlue Chieftain

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    I don't think this is correct. I've played many games with SV turned off and I'm fairly confident spaceship parts were still available. Just a "win" was not achievable via a ship launch.
     
  18. Firesmacker

    Firesmacker Chieftain

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    Unless something has changed with the patch, The Apollo Program isn't available if SV isn't checked. For awhile I was playing with Domination as the only VC and I couldn't build it. If I remember correctly, that and spaceship parts showed up but were greyed out.
     
  19. njmfff

    njmfff Prince

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    I play with Diplomatic Victory off, and I notice that Alex (who will most always go for Diplo) goes either into Domination or Science victory.

    Actually, I've seen Gandhi goes into warmonger mode sometimes in my games. It happens rarely, but it's not impossible. In one game, Gandhi went into city spam mod and believe it or not, take out Mongols and Germany on his own. :bowdown: Eventually he declared war on me and dropped few nukes on my cities (but being AI, he drop them on puppet cities. :rolleyes: )
     
  20. Mailman_Posty

    Mailman_Posty Chieftain

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    I play with only dom victory enabled and notice that during the late game 60-70% of AI's go Autocracy, 25% go order and maybe 5 % go freedom. This is on immortal difficulty.
     

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