Does the AI have preknowledge of the map?

[Exavier]

Thanks Condor. My system is WAY too slow to do the kind of testing you did. I do appreciate the effort. I tried to load the world builder once from ingame. It took nearly 20 mins. (below specs machine woes)

I am just glad I can play the game, cheats or not. lol

Yeah, I got homeworld quite a while back (if it the one I am thinking of...) Being a flying game I was at a complete loss. Not because of the game, but because i fly like a stone elephant. I gave it to my nephew who loved it.

Homeworld was a 3D Real time space stratagy... not a flight sim. basicly think Starcraft (RTS) but full 3D movement... I loved it cause you could be attacked from 6 directions (front, back, left, right, up, down) instead of the default 4 (front, back, left, right) that more stratagy games use

 

[ZippyRiver]

Yup, thats the one. When I talk about flight games, I am talking about full 3-D. I also tried "Jane's F-15 fighter" and "Red barron".

I am a brick in the air. A bird with one wing. A ......... you get the point.

Now "3-d" rts games like Might and Magic I do ok with, as long as I stay out of the water. Elite Gold was a great game, but it had the "auto center" option. It was the only way I could play it. Keyboard or joystick, no help.

 

[Exavier]

Yup, thats the one. When I talk about flight games, I am talking about full 3-D. I also tried "Jane's F-15 fighter" and "Red barron".

I am a brick in the air. A bird with one wing. A ......... you get the point.

Now "3-d" rts games like Might and Magic I do ok with, as long as I stay out of the water. Elite Gold was a great game, but it had the "auto center" option. It was the only way I could play it. Keyboard or joystick, no help.

lol your still thinking 3D flight as in you in the cockpit... Homeworld is a Full 3D RTS... basicly stratagy game controls in a 3D enviroment, control of entire fleets not a single ship

 

[The Condor]

For once in my time here I am going to ask if we can get back on topic finding out what other stuff Firaxis lied to us about.

 

[oldStatesman]

Why can't they not put the resources on the map at the beginning...at least those discovered with techs? Why not randomly generate their position when the first player discovers the appropriate tech? This is possible to do..they did a variation in civ3 when resources were exhauted...the resource would re-appear at a random square that met the criteria.

This simple fix would stop this behavior.

I just don't understand why all resources need to be placed on the map at the beginning instead of being placed randomly when they are first discovered....

 

[Exavier]

Considering i am a mapmaker (for every game i player) Its alot easier to balance the map if you create everything at the beginning. Even with a random map. Instead of having to wait several mins everytime someone unlocks a new resorce while its places on the map you generate the map before the game and not have to worry about it.

The exaustion function of Civ 3 was neat but i usually found it very annoying when i was trying to make a balanced/war generating map (basicly making it so ppl want to fight over the resorces). Having them despawn and move when you have placed them strategicly is annoying... though on random maps it was fun

 

[Psyringe]

Well, placing them on first discovery would only partly solve the problem as all AIs could see the resources as soon as one player discovers the tech that creates them.

The easiest solution is to modify the code that the AI runs when it evaluates city placement. There must be a check whether a resource is present (otherwise the AI couldn't behave as it does), just add another check whether the AI can actually see this resource. *Should* be possible. I don't know the inner workings of the AI though.

 

[Kolyana]

Well, placing them on first discovery would only partly solve the problem as all AIs could see the resources as soon as one player discovers the tech that creates them.

The easiest solution is to modify the code that the AI runs when it evaluates city placement. There must be a check whether a resource is present (otherwise the AI couldn't behave as it does), just add another check whether the AI can actually see this resource. *Should* be possible. I don't know the inner workings of the AI though.

I'm looking for the file that controls AI management of it's units but with no success ... if I can find the file, I could modify it, without a doubt.

 

[Psyringe]

I'm looking for the file that controls AI management of it's units but with no success ... if I can find the file, I could modify it, without a doubt.

I think the code that controls settler behaviour sits in a dll that will require the SDK to modify it.

 

[notoptimal]

Interesting, so we could actually test and list out what the AI values most, like which tiles types and which resources.

For example Ai will try to first settle grasslands, then plains, then forest, then hills, then it'll look for Iron, then Copper, then Ivory, then Gold, then Stone, etc.

I've been lurking, and decided to do an informal test based on this...

I built a map similar to Condor's military test map, except I made the end of each arm a 3x1 block. I put one resource in the center of each arm end - aluminum to the north, coal to the east, copper to the south, and horses to the west (all "strategic" resources). I removed all the AI techs, gave them two warriors and a settler in their city, plopped a spy there, and watched. The difficulty was noble, and Alexander was the particular AI for this test.

On the first test, I noticed that despite having a unit left for defense, Alex built a warrior. The turn after the warrior was built, the (escorted) settler headed east for the coal.

I reloaded the WB save, and he did it again. This time, I deleted the coal after he moved two squares down the eastern leg. He turned around and went north, towards the aluminum. I'll call this an informal confirmation of the AI being aware of hidden resources.

I reloaded again, this time swapping the horse and coal (coal west, horse east) to see if the AI would still go at the coal, or if the resources were a toss up and the RNG said "go east". It appears the RNG said "go east", because the settler party went for the horses. So, at first blush, it appears the AI doesn't put a premium on one strategic resource over another, at least, in this case.

notopt

 

[The Condor]

Intersting. I have not tested the AI's desicion making yet for strategic resource values so cool. Also, it is great to be a service to the general community. Wait... why did you put a resource at each end? You should leave one arm (the east seeing as to how it loves the east) resourceless and move the resources around each save like a merry-go-round to see its preferences because I am pretty sure the AI has preference but thanks. I will look into that.

 

[Birdjaguar]

What a great thread, thanks guys.

 

[The Condor]

Your welcome. Anything you want me to test (I feel a stuffy nose and cough coming up tomorrow[I already am ahead so nothing to worry about for my grades slipping])?

 

[Kolyana]

I'd like to test ISLANDS rather than peninsulas ... give the AI an settler, warrior (x2) and a transport and put 4 islands around him, one of which has a resource ... make the islands small and put his city on the opposite coast away from the resource island ... I want to see if he'll ignore the isalnd in front of him and to the north/south in order to travel all the way around to an unexplored island he knows there are resources on.

 

[The Condor]

I will try that. How small? So three relatively close and one real far away island that has a resource?

 

[Kolyana]

Nah, I'd equally space them. Maybe a 2x3 island, with a city on the left side on the middle. put 2x3 islands all the way around maybe 2 squares away and ensure that the AI has Fog of War on them.

Put 1 or 2 resources on the island to the east, so the AI has to sail around his own island to get to it.

 

[Kolyana]

I'd also be curious, if he does go for it, how far away it can be placed before the AI settles something closer first (I noticed this with long tracts of land ... there comes a point when the AI will settle a non-resource location that is closer).

 

[The Condor]

O.k. I will try. Also, how far do the AI's get to look again so I know where to place them and how far apart should each island be?

 

[Kolyana]

Well, when you build his original island you'll find that he gets 2-3 squares from his city ... I've been bringing this is to 2 all the way around, just to make sure that any resources are absolutely 'hidden'.

 

[The Condor]

I set them five away I am doing the test as we speak.