Does this really make sense? (City Detail Pic)

[Bleser]

Check this out... it's a city a founded that was in the middle of the tundra, yet on a river, to gain access to deer and sheep. However, after discovering Biology and Levees, it becomes a size 20 city (and growing!), larger than my capitol, and putting out a good amount of hammers too. Does this make sense? Where is a city on tundra not bordering the ocean this size in the real world?

(I can post an original 1680x1050 image if preferred to read the details)

 

[TLHeart]

A tundra city on a river can grow quite well in the modern era. Throw in a few resources and you have a great city.

 

[PotatoSamurai]

It would seem possible in the modern era to create such a city... but the reason we probably have none of them today is a simple matter of motivation: there's already much better locations to live in. No one wants to live in the tundra if they don't have to. Doesn't mean we couldn't if necessity warranted.

 

[CyberTyrant]

What do you expect, Bleser? You got a lot of river-side tiles, man.

That's awesome.

 

[7of9Fan]

Wow, nice city. I need to take advantage of the tnudra from now on. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bleser]

What do you expect, Bleser? You got a lot of river-side tiles, man.

That's awesome.

Right, but should river-side farms on tundra be just as food productive as river-side plains? I would think you could get a lot more food out of a plain bordering a river in, say, Missouri or Iowa than you could in Alaska or northern Canada... but I'm no farmer, just curious.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Wow, nice city. I need to take advantage of the tnudra from now on. Thanks for sharing.

It's kind of hard to until after Biology. Without levees or Biology, a farmed tundra tile just produces two food and one commerce.

 

[Lightwave]

Wow, I had previously neglected the impact of Biology on otherwise ineffective city locations. Thanks for pointing it out. I had wondered at times how I would effectively get some of those stray silver mines buried far inside the tundra regions, and this now provides the obvious answer.

With chain irrigation (I forget the tech availability at the moment), this can easily be applied to cities that are not on rivers as well. Of course, the production may not be quite as high without the levees, but it is something to look at. One small problem is that we now have a reason to chop all forests in the tundra regions as well.

If it were not for the excessive maintenance costs, I would like to claim decent site locations in tundra territory before the AI drops a city there or just to "complete" my territory claim for the future even if it will not be a "productive" city for a while.

 

[Bleser]

Wow, I had previously neglected the impact of Biology on otherwise ineffective city locations. Thanks for pointing it out. I had wondered at times how I would effectively get some of those stray silver mines buried far inside the tundra regions, and this now provides the obvious answer.

With chain irrigation (I forget the tech availability at the moment), this can easily be applied to cities that are not on rivers as well. Of course, the production may not be quite as high without the levees, but it is something to look at. One small problem is that we now have a reason to chop all forests in the tundra regions as well.

If it were not for the excessive maintenance costs, I would like to claim decent site locations in tundra territory before the AI drops a city there or just to "complete" my territory claim for the future even if it will not be a "productive" city for a while.

Hmmm... I'll have to double check, but I don't think you can perform "chain irrigation" (enabled by Civil Service) on tundra squares, ever. Even after Electricity, I don't think you can farm a tundra unless it has direct access to fresh water. Can anyone confirm?

 

[DigitalBoy]

Hmmm... I'll have to double check, but I don't think you can perform "chain irrigation" (enabled by Civil Service) on tundra squares, ever. Even after Electricity, I don't think you can farm a tundra unless it has direct access to fresh water. Can anyone confirm?

I can't "confirm," but I'm pretty sure that's the case. You can't ever farm tundra unless they're adjacent to a river. I don't know if fresh water lakes work since I never see them in the tundra.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Erm so...? You farmed everything so it grew =P

 

[Carabodes]

No chain irrigation is possible on tundra. I have no picture as proof, I only know, since I've made several desperate attempts to make it happen

You can farm around a freshwater lake on tundra, I've done it several times, but again; No chain irrigation.

 

[Bleser]

Erm so...? You farmed everything so it grew =P

Right... but what I'm saying is it grew to about 2.5 million people (and growing) and I can't think of a real-world city that even comes close to this size (without bordering the ocean)... no problem, just curious if this happend anywhere on earth.

 

[Bushface]

What about the English West Midlands conurbation (Birmingham to Wolverhapton, roughly) ? About 2 million, some 100 miles from the sea, and not even a navigable river.

 

[Lightwave]

Hmmm... I'll have to double check, but I don't think you can perform "chain irrigation" (enabled by Civil Service) on tundra squares, ever. Even after Electricity, I don't think you can farm a tundra unless it has direct access to fresh water. Can anyone confirm?

That's silly. I understand the "frozen" aspect of tundra for a lot of the year, but even tundra has a "warm" season where life springs up if only for a few months. I don't agree with the restriction.

 

[keshik22]

Right... but what I'm saying is it grew to about 2.5 million people (and growing) and I can't think of a real-world city that even comes close to this size (without bordering the ocean)... no problem, just curious if this happend anywhere on earth.

For example, check out Novosibirsk. Population is not 2 million but still very high.
Also, as far as I see it, the city 'population' in Civ represents not so much the city itself but more the surrounding area.

 

[lutzj]

biology is the key, it eliminates the need for irrigation and the extra food piles up quickly. I'm not surprised it got so big considering that most of the tiles are farms and you have 2 food resources.

Right... but what I'm saying is it grew to about 2.5 million people (and growing) and I can't think of a real-world city that even comes close to this size (without bordering the ocean)... no problem, just curious if this happend anywhere on earth.

Moscow is surrounded mainly by plains and tundra and has a population of 10 million

EDIT: On grassland, that would be one giant-ass city

 

[TheWilltoAct]

That's silly. I understand the "frozen" aspect of tundra for a lot of the year, but even tundra has a "warm" season where life springs up if only for a few months. I don't agree with the restriction.

Ah but the permafrost my son...

lol idk what I'm talkin 'bout ^.^

 

[Polycrates]

Tundra cities can be excellent later on. All those tundra forests can make for a . .. .. .. .. .in' National Park city, and farms and/or seafood and/or sushi can give you a pretty competitive population.

But even before that, tundra cities often have their uses. Tundra forests aren't that bad, a seafood resource is pretty much always worth it (and deer often are too), and financial civs want to make use of every possible millimetre of coastline. Silver and fur aren't really worth it for the city, but can be well worth it for the civ.

 

[SlightlyMad]

I think that the big issue is that Civ has never properly reflected migration. In the real world, people tend to move from harsher climates into more hospitable ones, and from more restrictive governments to less restrictive ones (when they can).

It might be interesting to give ice and tundra an unhappiness effect (+3 - Dang, it's cold!), and add some random events to the game that periodically drop a population or two from an unhappy city to a nearby happy city.