Does Venice need an extra yield hexagon?

[Nickel_lion]

Ok. I strongly believe Venice needs an extra (four in total) yield hexagon. Ok, I know we can puppet cities which have 3 "workable" hexagons each, but come on guys, Venice is just ONE city. The other civilizations can build any cities they want and Venice can just puppet a few.

What do you think?

 

[Teaf]

There should be enough workable tiles in the 3 hex range as you'll have a truck load of specialists in your capital. Also even though other civilizations can just settle cities where they want, Venitian ones don't start at 1 population nor do they contribute to GP or culture costs yet you can still freely buy units and buildings at them. A 4 hex range is an interesting idea, but I don't think Venice in particular need it.

 

[ferretbacon]

Does anyone else think this would be an interesting addition to America's UA? Would give you a reason to purchase tiles, so that you could expand into the fourth ring faster.

 

[Vxr]

I like this idea but you have to keep in mind that the each new ring increases the number of workable tiles exponentially meaning that 4 workable rings is significantly more than 3. Maybe the 4th ring would have a reduced yield.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

That's a very interesting idea, but I'd prefer Venice buffed by making it so all civs Merchants, Engineers and Scientists do NOT increase each others GP point requirements.

 

[sonicandfffan]

Does anyone else think this would be an interesting addition to America's UA? Would give you a reason to purchase tiles, so that you could expand into the fourth ring faster.

I like this idea.

It'd actually make America worth using.

Also, I have yet to see a city reach above 36 population so it wouldn't be too overpowered.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

That's a very interesting idea, but I'd prefer Venice buffed by making it so all civs Merchants, Engineers and Scientists do NOT increase each others GP point requirements.

I know this is off topic but they should really split up their counters as well, but in order to not make them over powered make it so they need twice as many points as the GWAMS (so when on Quick Artists needs 67, A Scientists needs 134).

Regarding Venice, they are meant to be a challenge, they aren't meant to be easy. Quite frankly, with double the routes you can built up the city to be a lot more bigger, have ton of gold, AND production. (if I remember correctly, if you happen to get Petra and Colossus that's about 22 trade routes).

 

[Unthinking Pain]

I like this idea.

It'd actually make America worth using.

Also, I have yet to see a city reach above 36 population so it wouldn't be too overpowered.

I've gotten to 52 by turn 320ish so far (playing Monty, floating gardens + Tradition + Hanging Gardens + a food trade route)

 

[Ryoga]

No I don't quite think so. What are the chances that you'll fill all the specialist slots and tiles? Especially when you consider that you'll have to squeeze all the three cultural guilds on Venice?

That wouldn't be much of a perk in my opinion. I'd rather have a larger cultural border limit.


As for America, the same logic applies. Rather than giving her the ability to work extra tiles, I'd give her the ability to buy tiles beyond the 3 tile range and between the maximum cultural boundary. This would turn useful especially in later eras where strategic resources pop just outside your cultural borders.

 

[AgentTBC]

Venice doesn't need buffing. It's already one of the easiest Civs to play.

 

[Unthinking Pain]

No I don't quite think so. What are the chances that you'll fill all the specialist slots and tiles? Especially when you consider that you'll have to squeeze all the three cultural guilds on Venice?

That wouldn't be much of a perk in my opinion. I'd rather have a larger cultural border limit.


As for America, the same logic applies. Rather than giving her the ability to work extra tiles, I'd give her the ability to buy tiles beyond the 3 tile range and between the maximum cultural boundary. This would turn useful especially in later eras where strategic resources pop just outside your cultural borders.

The benefit to working 4 tile radius, imo, is the ability to have a much better maximization of yield/worker by picking and choosing the best stuff.

 

[sonicandfffan]

I've gotten to 52 by turn 320ish so far (playing Monty, floating gardens + Tradition + Hanging Gardens + a food trade route)

Well on top of the 36 you'll need at least 10 specialists.

And you won't be able to get floating gardens in America anyway (unless you conquer Aztec cities).

It sounds like your city was an exceptional case. With specialists and 36 tiles the only thing an extra hex would do is give you a more diverse choice for your worker placement.

 

[Unthinking Pain]

Well on top of the 36 you'll need at least 10 specialists.

And you won't be able to get floating gardens in America anyway (unless you conquer Aztec cities).

It sounds like your city was an exceptional case. With specialists and 36 tiles the only thing an extra hex would do is give you a more diverse choice for your worker placement.

It was exceptional, thanks!

Seriously, I think I've gotten to 50 with someone else, but it was probably also a "cheater" like Dutch or Inca.

I think the big part of a 4 tile radius would be the optimization of tile yield. I mean, the odds that all 36 tiles in a 3-ring are good is pretty low.

I agree it's not an amazing bonus by any stretch, but America already doesn't have an amazing bonus imo so it's not a crazy thought. I wouldn't give it to Venice, though.

 

[sonicandfffan]

Yeah, Venice doesn't need a boost, double trade routes and converting any CS regardless of influence is more than enough.

 

[Xyuta]

Simple answer : no 4th ring tiles

Try to make war and use your GG if you really need one of these tiles.

 

[z284pwr]

Venice doesn't need buffing. It's already one of the easiest Civs to play.

I'm obviously playing them wrong. They are the only civ that I've had a struggle at keeping up with. I play on King and struggle mightily to keep up on production and science. I have to play nice or lose out on research agreements.

 

[chazzycat]

IMO you don't need RAs on King. Just focus on growing Venice and you should be fine. The key is to puppet a couple naval CS close by so you can send food trade routes to Venice via the sea. Each of those provides more food than the hanging gardens. 2-3 should be good then focus on international trade routes...beeline the techs that give extra routes, try to build the Colossus, etc. You should have lots of money soon. Don't forget to TP your puppets. Culture or diplo are both good choices.

 

[Ryoga]

I'm obviously playing them wrong. They are the only civ that I've had a struggle at keeping up with. I play on King and struggle mightily to keep up on production and science. I have to play nice or lose out on research agreements.

if you get optics and collective rule fast you'll have 3 developed cities pretty early and in BNW that's all you need for a long while.

The only real issue is that if the CS aren't close you'll have problems establishing connections.

After that you just need to play tall, you only have one real city there's no reason not to. Your slow science output means that you probably don't grow enough. Try to build either temple of Artemis or hanging gardens (or both if you can) use your extra trade routes to send food to all your 3 first cities (better if they are sea routes).

You can also chose fertility rites early on as your pantheon for an even greater growth.

Also, but you should already know this, get national college asap. You might end up missing the colossus and the great lighthouse (depending on difficulty level), but in my opinion they aren't indispensable. I'd rather focus on growing my capital, there are always alternatives for expansion.

 

[headcase]

A 4 tile range (probably for the capital only) would be a very interesting UA for another civ.

Venice is strong as is. I play King\Emperor (was Prince\King in G+K), but I won a Deity game as Venice on archipelago. If anything, their trade route bonus could be nerfed from double to 50% more, though I don't think that's necessary either.

I could write a lot about playing Venice, but my quick advice is:
- Use internal trade routes to give as many apples to Venice as you can.
- Build the market\bank\exchange in good time (without killing yourself over it) and always work the merchants.
- IMO Tradition is better than Liberty because of the apple routes, even though Liberty is very good for them.
- Don't be afraid to make Friendships for Research Agreements - make trade routes to every civ to decrease risk of denouncement\war over this.
- Buy CSs that are on the coast and have a lot of units. Leave a quarter to a third of them to ally if going for diplo victory - the Level 3 Freedom tenet that gives influence for trade routes is late-game dynamite for Venice.

 

[Matthew.]

I don't see how it would change anything. By the time you would be able to justify working a 4th ring (having the population to do so) the game has already ended. Thus, the argument of "I can't keep up with one city" doesn't work, as you still won't be able to keep up.

Also, people win OCC (one-city-challenge) all the time, without having access to CS puppets, so the problem of keeping up is an issue on the player's part.