Does well-known strategies work on Marathon speed?

[D Pedro II]

Hello you all!

I play BtS on Marathon speed and I have noticed that sucessful strategies for generating hammers in the early game such as chopping and whipping simply don't produce enough hammers to quickly produce a stack of ancient/classical eras units or a building in a couple of turns. I haven't made the calculations, but it seems that either the cost in hammers of everything is higher on marathon or chopping and whipping produce less hammers on that speed. Thus, how can one successfuly use these strategies to endure the barbarians waves in the early game (I usuallu don't build The Great Wall)? If that is not feasible, is there any strategy specific to marathon speed to produce a decent amount of hammers in the early game?

In addition, did anyone successfully axeman/queucha rushed on marathon? If so, please share with us your experience.

Thank you all

 

[DaveMcW]

Don't worry too much about hammers or turns to build. Look at the date.

Marathon rushes always start and end at an earlier date, even with the same amount of units.

 

[madscientist]

Ditto what Dave says.

EDIT: finish post

I play exclusively at marathon and find axe-rushing (or quechua rushing, or chariot rushing) easily doable. Marathon costs of military are 2X that of standard speed, buildings are 3X. Generally, chopping 1 forrest speeds up a unit built to one per turn, there is no overflow.

A picture is worth a 1000 words, look at my RPC summary games for axe-rushes, the following had a rush eliminating an rival AI early.

The Mighty Khan
Mad Monty
Shaka I and II
Charlemagne I
Joao
Hyuna Capac

Perhaps more also that I do not remember off hand

 

[obsolete]

Attacko's advanced war strategies work great at marathon...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The slower the game speed, the easier warring gets because the troops move, heal, and conquer faster relative to the tech pace. On marathon this is especially true since units are actually produced faster relative to game speed than buildings. It might seem like it takes forever, but that's because marathon takes forever in general . In reality, it's the easiest setting for these things (chopping is extremely powerful on marathon).

 

[Gliese 581]

Correct me if I'm wrong but how many hammers do you get from chopping on marathon? If it's 60 hammers then you build an army much faster since units only cost 2x? If it's 40 hammers then it should be equal to the other gamespeeds.
Actually epic is the slowest in production since chopping takes 5 turns = > 1.5 x 3 turns. Altough the cost for an axe is less, 52 hammers = < 1.5 x 35.
However as others have pointed out your units move way faster on both epic and marathon and this makes it easier.

 

[Kesshi]

Correct me if I'm wrong but how many hammers do you get from chopping on marathon?

Gliese,

Game speed has no effect on the amount of hammers chopping (or whipping) yields. Instead the costs of units and buildings are modified. What makes chopping (and whipping) of units so powerful on marathon is, as many have stated before, (including you) is that the unit costs are only 2x, while the building costs are 3x. It is slightly imbalanced, in my opinion, but then again I'm a warmonger, and love marching my units through any civilization that will give me the slightest bit of trouble.

 

[vale]

I can only assume you mean there is no effect to the relative hammers produced.

In marathon a whip gives 90 hammers per population.

In marathon a chop gives 60 hammers pre-math, 90 hammers post-math.

Units are cheaper. This kills the ability to 2 pop-whip early units which is the only drawback to war that I can think of on marathon.

 

[Gliese 581]

I can only assume you mean there is no effect to the relative hammers produced.

In marathon a whip gives 90 hammers per population.

In marathon a chop gives 60 hammers pre-math, 90 hammers post-math.

Units are cheaper. This kills the ability to 2 pop-whip early units which is the only drawback to war that I can think of on marathon.

Right, so at 3x hammers for chops and 2x unit costs you can both chop an axe-army much faster and due to unit speed attack your enemy and conquer his lands significantly faster than on other speeds.
I guess the axe-rush strategy works.

 

[CivCorpse]

I have often said that marathon speed really is meant to be played on huge maps. Where the distance traveled helps offset unit prices.

 

[Gliese 581]

I have often said that marathon speed really is meant to be played on huge maps. Where the distance traveled helps offset unit prices.

True, but only if the number of civs do not scale as well.

 

[dubrown]

I believe we've shown that whipping and chopping still is effective on marathon. One of the original questions was how to get barbdefense up, or rather any defense. The main thing with marathon is that things takes longer to produce but units moves the same. Thus you need to plan your defenses ahead of time, it takes time to catch up on a neglected tech. Thus sitting with only warriors available when the barbs comes with Archers or axes isn't that a good idea. If you have raging barbs when playing marathon I strongly suggest beelining GW or get archery or axes early. As soon as you settle that second city you'll need to have the defense for it.

 

[dutchfire]

I can only assume you mean there is no effect to the relative hammers produced.

In marathon a whip gives 90 hammers per population.

In marathon a chop gives 60 hammers pre-math, 90 hammers post-math.

Units are cheaper. This kills the ability to 2 pop-whip early units which is the only drawback to war that I can think of on marathon.

How long does whip-unhappiness last?

 

[vale]

30 turns. It also takes 3x more food to fill the bar (60+6p).

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Marathon is good for units, but it's the wonders you miss out on...UNLESS you have the bonus producing tiles....

You can't wonder spam at marathon, as it'll take you 30+ turns for most wonders....and the AI's all seem to go for differing oner'S

 

[madscientist]

Marathon is good for units, but it's the wonders you miss out on...UNLESS you have the bonus producing tiles....

You can't wonder spam at marathon, as it'll take you 30+ turns for most wonders....and the AI's all seem to go for differing oner'S

Nonesense, I only play marathon speed and frequently wonderspam.

 

[qwertz]

The units costing 0.67x the building on marathon doesn't really make much difference. You can get more units compared to buildings, but you opponents will get more units too. The only real difference is that it's easyer to get from HE and you have to pay more upkeep for your army.

 

[semirami]

Q rush is very very easy on Marathon. I am a Monarch player and recntly won conquest victory with Huayna Capac at BCs and only with quechas. Now I am playing Huayna at Immortal and it's still easy. Maybe I'll try Deity the next time.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

on both immortal&deity I go for archery unless I have copper right under my nose; even on emperor. Better safe then sorry... Unless I plan on a gw generated gspy for which obviously I need... the gw.

chopping/whipping works the same; eventually more effective if you want to rush since units are cheaper.

But barbarian defence wise, what makes the difference is the fact you actually have to dig in for lotsa turns(especially on deity); lotsa turns, sometimes unlucky rolls, sometimes, having barbarians come one right after the other means that, overall, you'll probably spend more hammers on units to counter barbarians(even taking in account the 33% discount on units) as you're bound to lose some units; more hammers or more worker turns. More, but not much more.

Rushes should be easier(I don't play anything but marathon, so this is only how it looks on paper) and that's how it looks from looking at various posted games; on the other hand, avoiding tanking is way harder... and when econ. tanks on marathon... it really tanks...

Only standard mechanic I found less effective on marathon is drafting, but that's mid game: with 10 turns unhappiness if you draft before a war, by the time you accumulated WW, your draft unhappiness will go away, so WW will simply replace draft unhappy... with 30 turns unhappiness penality, it'll just be a very pissed city...

But early game... just go archery(I used to hate doing that, I still do, but it's safe) and watch your money counter before starting to rush, in order to have enough to get you back floating.

p.s. - the only other mechanic that will work worse is actually ww. Since there are much more troops(more to kill, so higher ww) and since you produce them slower then in a normal game, but you take cities as fast as in a normal game, so maybe you won't have enough and you'll have sometimes to stop and wait for new city garnisson units.... and turns spent waiting for cg units while having high ww are unpleasant.

 

[Crusher1]

Q rush is very very easy on Marathon. I am a Monarch player and recntly won conquest victory with Huayna Capac at BCs and only with quechas. Now I am playing Huayna at Immortal and it's still easy. Maybe I'll try Deity the next time.

That's because Marathon speed is abuse .