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Doesn't receive defensive bonus?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Cheps, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. Cheps

    Cheps Chieftain

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    Hey guys,

    Haven't played civ4 for a while so it's time to play a few games again (and spend a few nights :cry: ). I have this question about units with "Doesn't receive defensive bonus" (knights, tanks, etc): what does it mean exactly?

    I know such units can't fortify and get up to 25% bonus, but do they get
    - defense bonus from city culture?
    - defense bonus from forts?
    - defense bonus from walls/castles?
    - defense bonus if the attacker is crossing river(and not amphibious)?
    - defense bonus bonus from terrain(hills/forest)?
    - defense bonus from promotions (combat, woodsman, etc)?
    - any other I'm missing?

    Thanks :)
     
  2. Kesshi

    Kesshi Emperor

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    Attacker is attacking from a sea vessel (and not amphibious) also incurs the same penalty, but at 50% instead of 25%.

    Edit: Also, I don't know if these are considered attacker penalties or defender bonuses.
     
  3. Chep

    Chep Emperor

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    these are considered attacker penalties

    -> mounted units should get these "bonuses"

    easiest would be trying it in worldbuilder.

    if you rightclick the enemy unit after selecting yours, you see all the modifiers.
    so give your enemy a unit with this feature in one of his cities and then have a look.

    promotion-bonuses, however, are definitely applied. Units that receive no defense bonus also cant get the city guard, woodsman or guerilla-promotions.
    except for those two, I'm pretty sure no other bonus will be applied
     
  4. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    I honestly didn't run tests on this, but I'm almost 99% sure that you simply don't get the bonuses from tiles (Forrests, hills, etc) but you do get the cultural defense (and walls) .
     
  5. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    The defense bonus normally implies terrain, which would include city related and most promotions ones as well.
    amphibious should apply normally.

    So
    - defense bonus from city culture? = No
    - defense bonus from forts? = No
    - defense bonus from walls/castles? = No
    - defense bonus if the attacker is crossing river(and not amphibious)? = Yes
    - defense bonus bonus from terrain(hills/forest)? = No
    - defense bonus from promotions (combat, woodsman, etc)? = No for defensive ones. Yes for offensive ones. Combat, Shock, Formation, Cover, Pinch, are not a defensive promotions. Woods1, City1, Guerilla1, are.
     
  6. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    A Chariot doesn't get the cultural defense or walls defense plasma? Are you 100% sure on that? :eek:
     
  7. Kesshi

    Kesshi Emperor

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    Yes. Culture is considered a defensive bonus.
     
  8. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    Wow, that's harsh. Means that a Longbow can defend a hills-city better than a Cuirrassier would.
     
  9. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    Unless, the chariot is an Immortal, or the Cuirssier is from Spain.
    The LBs can be tough to dig out.
     
  10. Cheps

    Cheps Chieftain

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    So I tested a bit in the world builder, and what plasmacannon said is right, they only get bonus from promotions, but nothing from city, hill, forest, etc.

    As for crossing river, it is a bonus for the defender, not a malus for the attacker: a warrior vs a knight is at 2 vs 12.5 (10 + 25%).
     
  11. God-Emperor

    God-Emperor Deity

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    All strength modifiers except the type you get from the combat line of promotions are always applied to the defender even if they are attacker bonuses/penalties.

    The city raider promotion gives +20% to attack a unit in city but it is not applied by multiplying the attacker's strength by 1.2, it is applied by dividing the defender's strength by 1.2. That is assuming there are no other bonuses the defender is getting, which is not likely - in that case it reduces their bonuses by 20% instead as long as the bonuses total at least 20%, if they have only 10% in bonuses (say 2 turns of fortification is their only bonus) then the 10% bonus is negated and the remaining 10% attack bonus is applied by dividing their strength by 1.1.

    Likewise attacking across a river gives an attack penalty of 25%, which is then applied by multiplying the defender's strength by 1.25 (assuming no other factors are involved).

    The way it works is to add up all the defender's bonuses and subtract any penalties it has in this fight (usually none), then from this total subtract any attack bonuses the attacker gets (except the plain strength percentage from the Combat line of promotions, which are applied to the attacker's strength) and add in any penalties the attacker gets. If the resulting number is zero then nothing is done. If it is greater than 0 then add 100 and then divide by 100 to get the actual factor by which the defender's strength is multiplied. If the resulting number is less than zero then subtract it from 100 and then divide by 100 to get the actual factor by which the defender's strength is divided.
     
  12. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    God-Emperor, I'm nearly 100% certain that river crossing penalties are applied to the attacker's strength, but all others (except combat I - V promotions) are applied to the defender.
     

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