DoF Friendships more dureable?

[Loucypher]

In vanilla CiV, I never accepted friends request because they used it as an excuse to plunder your treasure, and if you didn't give in, you got a negative modifier and could kiss any friendship with them goodbye.
Now I'm playing a science based game as Carthage, and among my friends is Egypt. Due to the plentiful happiness I have, I had no problems handing over some spices to Korea or Marble to the Inca, but Egypt decides to ask for 1083 gold. Which amounts to my entire treasury.
So I tell him to bugger off, and say sorry if it caused a divide between us. Few turns later, our DoF ends...
...
And he comes back asking for a renewal of our DoF. I was pleasantly surprised to see that and accepted, immediately signing a RA with them as well - and he saw it out the 30 turns without betrayal too. I say, this IS a great improvement compared to Vanilla...

 

[nefloyd]

You don't get a negative anymore for refusing a friend's request, but you can still get the "you helped us" bonus for accepting it.

Also, you need DoF now to begin research pacts.

Yeah, they're more durable

 

[petey]

I don't know how durable they are. In the game I'm playing now, Spain requested a DoF with me early on and then attacked me as soon as it expired. It doesn't seem to me to be all that different from the fake friendly status except that you can use it to figure out which of your friends are fake friendly at that moment.

 

[milk steak]

I don't know how durable they are. In the game I'm playing now, Spain requested a DoF with me early on and then attacked me as soon as it expired. It doesn't seem to me to be all that different from the fake friendly status except that you can use it to figure out which of your friends are fake friendly at that moment.

To me, that is an example of DoF being durable. She at least waited until the DoF expired to DoW you, which is what most humans would do in this scenario. Some Civs are more back-stabby and will DoW you over a DoF without hesitation (and use that DoF to lure you into a false sense of security). Bismark tended to do this from the games I've played.

 

[PhilBowles]

I don't know how durable they are. In the game I'm playing now, Spain requested a DoF with me early on and then attacked me as soon as it expired. It doesn't seem to me to be all that different from the fake friendly status except that you can use it to figure out which of your friends are fake friendly at that moment.

In practically every G&K game I've had I've had multiple concurrent DoFs lasting the full game, and I've only been backstabbed twice (once by Isabella). If a civ refuses a renewal it's usually a genuine sign of deterioration in relations, and if they accept usually a genuine sign that relations are good. I've also effectively used DoFs to neutralise former enemies.

 

[Peacemongerer]

DoF is soooooo much better than in vanilla. Provided you don't anger anyone, you'll often have more friends than enemies. I once had a game where three AI denounced me in the first 20 turns and 2 of them wound-up being friendly long therafter. Only the third who saw fit to DoW me decided to be friendly and backstab me. She's definitely not gonna become my friend anytime soon since I took her capital.

 

[Tachii]

I think it's a bit bugged. When I continue the DoF (when I'm still Friends with them), even if they refuse it doesn't expire 50 turns after I first got the DoF. I did this with a neighbour civ Egypt once. He declined me everytime I tried and yet I remained friends with him for at least over 100 turns.

 

[Lose]

DoF will last longer if you are not going to war as well.

 

[Louis XXIV]

It works pretty well. Carthage always asks me for Furs, but it's a spare so I don't really care that much. She also routinely offers me 240 gold for other things I have, so it's a pleasant relationship. Almost makes me feel bad that I'm going for conquest and will have to conquer them after I finish with my other allies, the Byzantines (to be honest, they should hate me after I conquer Constantinople, but I'll have to wait and see if that's the case).

 

[PhilBowles]

It works pretty well. Carthage always asks me for Furs, but it's a spare so I don't really care that much. She also routinely offers me 240 gold for other things I have, so it's a pleasant relationship. Almost makes me feel bad that I'm going for conquest and will have to conquer them after I finish with my other allies, the Byzantines (to be honest, they should hate me after I conquer Constantinople, but I'll have to wait and see if that's the case).

If you offer a deal they accept once, they'll usually come back telling you it strengthened their relationship with you and they'd like to renew it, which can be a good way of farming cash from them. However, I deliberately avoid farming AIs for cash because it's not a very interesting way to play and is potentially exploitative, and in any case extra happiness from exchanging luxuries is often better in the long run, as the gold boost from extra pop or golden ages will ultimately exceed that 240.

 

[nefloyd]

If you offer a deal they accept once, they'll usually come back telling you it strengthened their relationship with you and they'd like to renew it, which can be a good way of farming cash from them. However, I deliberately avoid farming AIs for cash because it's not a very interesting way to play and is potentially exploitative, and in any case extra happiness from exchanging luxuries is often better in the long run, as the gold boost from extra pop or golden ages will ultimately exceed that 240.

Yeah, until the crazy as @#$# AI declares war on you at random. I'd rather trade my spares for pure cash than inflate my population to a neutral happiness point dependent on receiving an AI's luxury, because they so often break it or end up demanding more. Losing Cotton I needed to remain happy is more painful than only receiving 171 gold instead of 240 'cause the AI likes me less.

I always ask for 240 gold if possible, 83 gold 5 gpt otherwise.

 

[PhilBowles]

Yeah, until the crazy as @#$# AI declares war on you at random. I'd rather trade my spares for pure cash than inflate my population to a neutral happiness point dependent on receiving an AI's luxury, because they so often break it or end up demanding more. Losing Cotton I needed to remain happy is more painful than only receiving 171 gold instead of 240 'cause the AI likes me less.

I always ask for 240 gold if possible, 83 gold 5 gpt otherwise.

Well, I very rarely have any trouble either remaining friendly with an AI or predicting when relations will likely go sour, and where possible I don't rely on trade to maintain 'neutral happiness' - rather I aim for positive happiness both as a buffer for population growth, and to accelerate my next Golden Age (and the consequent gold boost). I usually have at least one game-long friendship, and in one recent game I had three (in a six-civ Pangea map - and was friends with a fourth for most of the game until I decided to turn hostile, rather than the AI),so the benefits of playing for longer-term advantage can certainly be worth it.

 

[Largio]

I also enjoy DOF's after Gods and Kings, but one thing annoys me.

When an AI asks for lux or gold from me, I'm not able check whether its a lux that I have extra copy of or is he asking for all my GPT. I usually have to decline because I have no idea how that particular deal would affect me empire.

I think we should be able see to our lux resources and GPT situation like in a basic trade table. Not to be able to change the proposed deal but just to see what we are agreeing into.

 

[Lose]

I also enjoy DOF's after Gods and Kings, but one thing annoys me.

When an AI asks for lux or gold from me, I'm not able check whether its a lux that I have extra copy of or is he asking for all my GPT. I usually have to decline because I have no idea how that particular deal would affect me empire.

I think we should be able see to our lux resources and GPT situation like in a basic trade table. Not to be able to change the proposed deal but just to see what we are agreeing into.

unfortunately, there are only mods for this.

 

[Tachii]

I also enjoy DOF's after Gods and Kings, but one thing annoys me.

When an AI asks for lux or gold from me, I'm not able check whether its a lux that I have extra copy of or is he asking for all my GPT. I usually have to decline because I have no idea how that particular deal would affect me empire.

I think we should be able see to our lux resources and GPT situation like in a basic trade table. Not to be able to change the proposed deal but just to see what we are agreeing into.

They only ask for extra luxuries you have, not ones where you only have a single copy in G&K. I always decline the GPT one since it's too silly. And they have a tendency to ask when I'm in a Golden Age (obviously since I have lots) for some crazy requests sometimes.

What need to be modified I think is when they declare Friendship. I have no idea who their enemies are or their friends are. DoF the wrong AI and you may find yourself being denounced by 2 other AI you really didn't want.

 

[Louis XXIV]

If you offer a deal they accept once, they'll usually come back telling you it strengthened their relationship with you and they'd like to renew it, which can be a good way of farming cash from them. However, I deliberately avoid farming AIs for cash because it's not a very interesting way to play and is potentially exploitative, and in any case extra happiness from exchanging luxuries is often better in the long run, as the gold boost from extra pop or golden ages will ultimately exceed that 240.

The deal was their own initiative from the beginning best I can remember. I'm not struggling for luxuries and they have none to spare. I'm just accepting it because there's no reason not to.

 

[Roxlimn]

Tachii:

Your Diplomatic advisor will tell you recent global politics at a glance. The AI tends to denouce its enemies so you can tell what the ally bloc looks like just from who's denouncing whom. In general, Civs close to each other will tend to hate each other's guts, especially if they don't share a religion or if they have the same luxes in common (so they can't trade that).

I've always found it plausible to maintain DoFs, even in Vanilla. I didn't need the modifier summary to do it, either. Still mostly don't. It's easier to maintain DoFs and to change relations in GnK. I think it's because they reduced the number of possible negative modifiers and increased the variety of positive modifiers.

 

[Kimuyama]

One time, when i was playing the Austrians, Arabia, my transalpine neighbour, made a DoF with me and some turns later was all like "Dude! Let's go allCortézy on that Monty guy!", and I was like "K". So as my army marched to where I thought the Fabled land of Mexico lay (which turned out to be the wrong way anyways), Harry backstabbed me. The lenghts he went to convince me we were friends, that he lured me into such a sense of security was staggering, he even took a city before I was able to turn the tides of that war, which ended with me taking Medina.
(A couple of centuries and two wars later I had taken his entire sorry-ass empire, that last one was only to put him out of his misery, he wasn't really a threat to anybody, especially not me)

PS. Worth to note that the war against the Aztecs went without a single battle, and we ended up pretty good mates a bit later.