Dogpiling

[mrdoe]

Hi I'm new here (but I've been lurking for a while).

Today I did an immortal rush with Darius on Monarch / Huge / 18civs, because I felt like seeing what immortal rushes are like. The start went well, I captured 10 cities in addition to the 2 I made (I only still have 2 of my own cities). Then towards the middle of the game, the AI started dogpiling. I got 4 DOWs at once sometimes, with people with power ratings half of mine, and the worst part is that they share all of my borders. I've got two furious people (Joao, sally) next to me to the north and to the west gilgamesh is annoyed (now furious, maybe) (just look at that diplo screen). So needless to say I need help with diplo, and with army management in general, as I haven't been able to make significant gains (3 front wars are difficult). My close allies are all miles away, so they aren't helping. Also I have no vassals.

Fortunately (?) right now I only have 3 AIs dogpiling. I've got muskets/maces/knights, they've got maces/axes/swords, but I can't make any gains because of (1) the happiness situation (if I pull troops away the cities get angry, I'm on HR) and (2) the 3 front war.

If anyone wants to try to salvage the game, the save's attached.

 

[drlake]

Well, you certainly have managed to make a lot of AI Civs mad. That isn't a dogpile, though. When you have 13 AI civs in a game, you are going to have situations where more than one go to war with you because the AI civs will try to bribe others into joining the war. I'd fight a defensive war until I could make peace with 1-2 of them and work on crushing them one at a time. You can try to bribe other AIs into the war on your side, too.

How did you get into this position, refusing trades and demands?

 

[mrdoe]

Yes, I (probably unwisely) always refused demands for military techs. Unfortunately, they traded for those techs anyways. Also, they always declare immediately (or 5 turns) after the peace treaty expires. It's never-ending war .
Some of those events didn't help either.

Additionally, more than half of the demands were for war against some neighbors. Those I was very wise to refuse. Also because of the nature of an immortal rush, I get huge diplo penalties for "You declared war on our friend."

 

[drlake]

Yeah, events can tip the balance at times. I'd start making friends with the AI civs that aren't Furious already, to shift things in your favor over time. I never play worlds this big, so I have no idea whether it is possible to dig out of a hole like this one.

 

[mrdoe]

I've gifted lots of useless techs, it doesn't help much with diplo, because a lot of the civs on this map are those that give you only +1 for "trade relations are forthright."

 

[mrdoe]

I've gifted lots of useless techs, it doesn't help much with diplo, because a lot of the civs on this map are those that give you only +1 for "trade relations are forthright." "You're either with us or against us" on this map, because there are no cautious people, you have people like roosevelt who are friendly, then you have those annoyed people that all have <-7 diplo.

 

[mrdoe]

In other news, a larger dogpile.
If that wasn't a dogpile this is.
edit:add picture

 

[drlake]

I don't claim to have mastered diplomacy, but what I have seen is that sustained good relations are more valuable than one shot gifts. I trade away a lot of resources for a few gpt, for example, which seems to help. Another option is to look at civics, and change to match their preferred civics (for particularly picky AI civs). You could also use espionage to try to change the religion of some of the AIs involved, to match yours, or change yours to match theirs (or to Free Religion if you can).

Also, you get more benefit out of giving in to their demands than you do from giving them a tech they didn't demand.

 

[mrdoe]

Huh, this game I seem to have forgotten about resource trading because I had enough gold. I usually trade resources for necessity only. In my experience it gets you +1 diplo which really doesn't help when they're -7.

 

[futurehermit]

In your next game, focus harder on trying to build positive relations with some of your neighbours. It seems to me like you are pretty much ignoring the diplo side of the game.

 

[drlake]

This article on getting a diplomatic victory covers the main modifiers.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/diplo_victory_notes.php

 

[Samuel_996]

If I get a demand from a cautious border-neighbour, 90% of the time I concede; if you've been declining, that can hurt. Looking at that screenshot, when your war ends I'd recommend getting out of Confu into Hindu or at least NSR, then FR when it's available. Many of the people you're warring with probably gave you those demerits because you were a heathen. Also consider your map position when buddying up with people, as borders and distance are considered. For instance in this game Hindu certainly seems like a good idea given your neighbours' religions. If you don't have it in a city, try to capture one from any of your neighbours.

In a nutshell: Buddy up to the Hindu bloc, not the Confu bloc. If you're having trouble with Confucians after that, go FR after Lib.

Diplo is difficult in 18-civ maps. When I moved from 18-civs to large/normal sized maps, it became much less complicated, or at least manageable.

Hope that helped! Diplo is my favourite area of Civ, I hope they don't nerf it in Civ V what with the scrapping of religion.

 

[mrdoe]

Thanks for the suggestions people.

 

[Dr.Null]

In my most recent Darius game, it went like this:

- Early war: Immortal rush vs. whoever didn't have an early UU. Make nice with Shaka, Sitting Bull and Hannibal, kill Isabelle and take her shrine city. Do not switch to a religion just yet.

- Wait and see which religion is dominant. Switch to that one when requested.

- Accede to the demands of my fellow Hindus, blow off demands of heathen scum.

- Continue warring against heathen scum until I get cannons (via Liberalism). Now I have a stick, it's no longer quite so important to say "nice doggy".

 

[robvollman]

Militarily, go into a defensive holding pattern against all your enemies but one, and then beat the crap out of that one. Repeat that process one by one until your enemies are gone.