We can squeeze another city in - I didn't notice until I was actually playing, but I moved a settler 1 SW of J-11 to settle next turn. That gives us room to place another town on the spice NE of J-11, so we need another settler built. If we are not building more workers, then I think it should probably be rushed from a KISS populated town like Fe's Winery.
Domestic Department - Term 9
- Thread starter General_W
- Start date
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Ok – I went back and re-read your comments in post #109 Chamnix.
First time I read it, I thought you were saying that we have plenty of workers to get everything done in the next 10 turns without new workers.
Now that I've looked again, I see that I misunderstood a bit.
If you could help me out with how many more workers you think we need – then I can set build orders accordingly. I just haven't paid attention to the workers when I open the saves for quite a while now… as you've been so ably handling that.
I like the town name "Meleet's Shrine"… let's use that name on that extra city location Chamnix finagled for us! A gift from Meleet! And yes – let's squeeze another settler out of Fe's Winery for that location.
Without CivAssist, I'm having a hard time estimating what the fringe towns will look like sans Golden Age. I trust you on Swamp Shepherd… that was a toss-up for me anyway. However… Woodridge will still grow a bit, and has access to some pretty decent commerce tiles. With us looking to be running 70-80% science here for a while, are you sure a Library won't be worthwhile?
@Fe – thanks for the Black Purse reminder. I'll adjust.
@ Classical Hero - Maybe we could re-name Paradise Hotel to "Regent Mansion" and Swampland to "Ginger Ale's Stand"
What do you think?
Other suggestions?
First time I read it, I thought you were saying that we have plenty of workers to get everything done in the next 10 turns without new workers.
Now that I've looked again, I see that I misunderstood a bit.
If you could help me out with how many more workers you think we need – then I can set build orders accordingly. I just haven't paid attention to the workers when I open the saves for quite a while now… as you've been so ably handling that.
I like the town name "Meleet's Shrine"… let's use that name on that extra city location Chamnix finagled for us! A gift from Meleet! And yes – let's squeeze another settler out of Fe's Winery for that location.
Without CivAssist, I'm having a hard time estimating what the fringe towns will look like sans Golden Age. I trust you on Swamp Shepherd… that was a toss-up for me anyway. However… Woodridge will still grow a bit, and has access to some pretty decent commerce tiles. With us looking to be running 70-80% science here for a while, are you sure a Library won't be worthwhile?
@Fe – thanks for the Black Purse reminder. I'll adjust.
@ Classical Hero - Maybe we could re-name Paradise Hotel to "Regent Mansion" and Swampland to "Ginger Ale's Stand"
What do you think?
Other suggestions?
fe3333au
Deity
Excellent play on RM and GA names 
I was trying to count worker turns remaining until everything is done, but it is too hard on those screenshots. I'll try to look at the actual save. Once we know how many worker-turns we have left, then we can decide how long we are willing to take and we will know how many workers to build.
Based on your corruption list, Woodridge will be 49% corrupt with its courthouse after our GA ends. With 6 citizens, I guess it would produce around 16 commerce gross. With 8 commerce after corruption, 70% science will give 6 commerce, so a library will add 3 bpt. It does leave us with a benefit after maintenance cost, but I'm not really sure it's worth 40 shields at this stage of the game.
Based on your corruption list, Woodridge will be 49% corrupt with its courthouse after our GA ends. With 6 citizens, I guess it would produce around 16 commerce gross. With 8 commerce after corruption, 70% science will give 6 commerce, so a library will add 3 bpt. It does leave us with a benefit after maintenance cost, but I'm not really sure it's worth 40 shields at this stage of the game.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Ok- you're right. A gain of 3bpt won't offset the 160 gold we could save on rushing a bomber by start a pre-build right now (4x40).
Besides… I'm starting to pack the things up in my office here at the Domestic Ministry… this will complete on someone else's watch!
Besides… I'm starting to pack the things up in my office here at the Domestic Ministry… this will complete on someone else's watch!
I think we have roughly 4700 native worker-turns of (somewhat useful) work left to do. I omitted things like improving hills, mountains, and deserts in the north since we can't really use them anyway. Our current workforce can do about 145 native worker-turns of work each turn, so with no more workers, it will take us about 32-33 turns until we are fully improved.
I guess that's not terrible, but ideally we will get Flight in about 18 turns. Our workers will not be available for chopping duty very quickly after Flight as I hoped. On the other hand, if we build more workers and don't start accumulating some shields, chopping won't help all that much, and with our unit costs and less than maximum efficiency science farms, we may not be able to do 4-turn research
.
If we get Replaceable Parts in somewhere around 22 turns, then our workers will be at double speed, and finished in somewhere around 27 turns from now.
I guess that's not terrible, but ideally we will get Flight in about 18 turns. Our workers will not be available for chopping duty very quickly after Flight as I hoped. On the other hand, if we build more workers and don't start accumulating some shields, chopping won't help all that much, and with our unit costs and less than maximum efficiency science farms, we may not be able to do 4-turn research
.If we get Replaceable Parts in somewhere around 22 turns, then our workers will be at double speed, and finished in somewhere around 27 turns from now.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
MIA Domestic Update:
Turn 177
Turn 177
Science Update: Electricity – 4200 - (1 turn left)
Treasury: 603 (+191)
Black Purse: 157 (+2)
Golden Age: 5 turns left…
Domesitc Headline News:
* Mini-map shows our whole continent as light green!
CivAssist Update:
* Waiting for Ainwood to Fix.
* Waiting for Ainwood to Fix.
Proposed Domestic Orders for turn 177:
Cities:
* Black Hole – Finish Factory, Start Bank
* Pale Dove – Finish University, Start Factory
* Switch some more towns to Worker duty. (Bring total up to 20 towns building workers) * Re-name Paradise Hotel to "Regent Mansion" and Swampland to "Ginger Ale's Stand"
* Name that bonus town location you squeezed out “Meleet’s Shrine”
* Black Hole – Finish Factory, Start Bank
* Pale Dove – Finish University, Start Factory
* Switch some more towns to Worker duty. (Bring total up to 20 towns building workers) * Re-name Paradise Hotel to "Regent Mansion" and Swampland to "Ginger Ale's Stand"
* Name that bonus town location you squeezed out “Meleet’s Shrine”
Settlement Plan 1.1:
Spoiler Towns to Settle and names :
Spoiler Towns to Settle and names :
Economy:
* Lux 0% - Science to 60%? (or just get it in 1 turn!)
* Lux 0% - Science to 60%? (or just get it in 1 turn!)
Please post any and all comments or suggestions here!
From the Desk of the Domestic Minister:
* I didn’t get a chance to update the list of towns already settled, but I trust that won’t throw you off to much. Sorry!
* I’m thinking a good compromise on the workers vs. Bomber pre-builds is to bring our “worker building towns” up to about 20 total. I’ll leave it to you to decide which are the best towns for that… the other can keep working on their bomber pre-builds.
I’m just picking this number as a gut instinct. I’m totally open to other ideas. Since there is so much work to do, I think we should keep a modest flow of workers adding to our pile- but we also want a significant number of towns ahead of the game on bombers so we can have a crippling opening move with flight. Hence – I think 20 worker towns is a decent compromise. Other thoughts? Other numbers?
Spoiler Current Tech Plan :
I did a lousy job turning all worker builds to marketplaces last turn - wow, I missed a lot. It wasn't intentional, and at least none of them finished... anyway I think I'll wait until tonight to play even if it means needing an hour or two extension - playing in the morning is just too chaotic.
Black Hole I was thinking coal plant instead of bank - 50% more shields is worth a lot more than 50% more income. If we really want a bank there, then it still probably makes sense to put the coal plant up first to speed the bank along.
Pale Dove will probably be at about 12 spt after our Golden Age ends. The factory will take around 17 turns, and then it will provide 6 extra spt, so it will be almost 60 turns total before we reach the break-even point in shields (and that's even ignoring the maintenance and pollution). Pale Dove is the type of town I think could start building boats.
Black Hole I was thinking coal plant instead of bank - 50% more shields is worth a lot more than 50% more income. If we really want a bank there, then it still probably makes sense to put the coal plant up first to speed the bank along.
Pale Dove will probably be at about 12 spt after our Golden Age ends. The factory will take around 17 turns, and then it will provide 6 extra spt, so it will be almost 60 turns total before we reach the break-even point in shields (and that's even ignoring the maintenance and pollution). Pale Dove is the type of town I think could start building boats.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
yeah - saw that on the workers! it's all cool though, because that order was an over-reaction based on a misunderstanding. 
Now I want 20 worker towns anyway.
Re: Black Hole - Ok... I agree with that. I'll adjust that order.
Re: Pale Dove - well, you're obviously correct, but that's not really how I look it at. I want to have maximum shield capacity when we get bombers avalible. If we can enhance Pale Dove's spt by 6, then we can save ourselves a LOT of gold on rushing bombers when the time comes... even without rushing, the factory takes Pale Dove from a 9 turn Bomber producer down to a 6 turn producer. Also - I pretty much see boats as a totally unnecessary drain on our treasury right now... at our budget will soon get very tight... esp with building more workers.
So I remain unconvinced. I'm keeping the factory order unless you have a further argument?
it's all cool though, because that order was an over-reaction based on a misunderstanding. Now I want 20 worker towns anyway. Re: Black Hole - Ok... I agree with that. I'll adjust that order.
Re: Pale Dove - well, you're obviously correct, but that's not really how I look it at. I want to have maximum shield capacity when we get bombers avalible. If we can enhance Pale Dove's spt by 6, then we can save ourselves a LOT of gold on rushing bombers when the time comes... even without rushing, the factory takes Pale Dove from a 9 turn Bomber producer down to a 6 turn producer. Also - I pretty much see boats as a totally unnecessary drain on our treasury right now... at our budget will soon get very tight... esp with building more workers.
So I remain unconvinced. I'm keeping the factory order unless you have a further argument?
How about this... Flight is about 17 turns away (depending on our research rate). I'm oversimplifying some, but given a choice between:
A. Factory in 17 then bomber every 6 turns thereafter (23,29,35,41, etc.).
B. Bomber in 18 (with appropriate prebuild) then bomber every 9 turns thereafter (27,36,45, etc.).
I'd prefer choice B - I think the first batches of bombers should be decisive, and I don't think an extra bomber 18 turns after we first get Flight and more later is gamebreaking. I'm not sure what choices we have in the meantime other than boats - there's always wealth, I suppose.
A. Factory in 17 then bomber every 6 turns thereafter (23,29,35,41, etc.).
B. Bomber in 18 (with appropriate prebuild) then bomber every 9 turns thereafter (27,36,45, etc.).
I'd prefer choice B - I think the first batches of bombers should be decisive, and I don't think an extra bomber 18 turns after we first get Flight and more later is gamebreaking. I'm not sure what choices we have in the meantime other than boats - there's always wealth, I suppose.
We're going to need the boats at some point anyway, so maybe we should start on Frigates?
fe3333au
Deity
There is already one under construction
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Wow that is going to scare the opposition.
fe3333au
Deity
Better then pointing sticks at them
lost_civantares
[Insert Title]
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Stupid question, but why arn't we building ironclads? Are we missing the technology, or are they just not worth the shields? Sorry, they are almost always worthless in civ4 (they can't leave the shore) but I don't know about civ3.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
We don't have the Tech Ironclads and we do not need to get it, since getting destroyer with Combustion soon, makes Ironclads a pointless tech. It would have been nice to keep them with Steam Engine.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Very well! I relent! we’ll start building some boats. I haven’t fully wrapped my mind around how much using the ToE is going to speed us on the way to flight.
we’ll start building some boats. I haven’t fully wrapped my mind around how much using the ToE is going to speed us on the way to flight.
azzaman333
meh
Just dont build any Frigates! They dont upgrade to anything.
(Yes, I have a grudge against Frigates, useless boats.)
(Yes, I have a grudge against Frigates, useless boats.)
donsig
Low level intermediary
azzaman333 said:
They're not so useless if they only have to fight other frigates and galleons.
lost_civantares
[Insert Title]
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Yes, but for how long is that all we will fight?
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