1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Domestic trade routes - thoughts?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by s0nny80y, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. s0nny80y

    s0nny80y Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,083
    Location:
    Ohio
    I especially enjoy the idea that newly acquired or created cities in the latter half of the game can receive help and supply in the form of developing pop growth and increasing hammers available.

    Reinforcing the economies of cities founded/taken at a considerable distance from the capital in the early game could be pivotal in securing choke points, resources etc. Settling in barren land becomes entirely possible with the assistance of domestic trade routes.

    I like the idea of transferring unit production to cities near the front but didn't think it feasible considering the lack of hammers (and pop if you razed it and cancelled the razing process before completely burning down the city) those frontier cities are left with after siege. This way an empire entirely engulfed by war can continue expanding by force at the expense of burning bridges that would have brought income by way of int'l trade routes.

    At the moment I am playing a huge emperor archipelago Mongol standard game (12 a.i. and max CS) and I am at the half way point of the game. My horde of Keshiks and Cavalry is unsustainable without war, remaining intact and not disbanded by looting cities and enemy units...my scouts i've filled cities for happiness bonuses have, turn-by-turn disbanded due to an economy of minus 60+ GPT.

    The only way to finish this particular Mongol game meaningfully is to dominate, but without domestic trade routes (I call those 'supply lines'), the war industry will remain considerably slow and reinforcements have ten turns worth of travel from homeland to battlefront; unacceptable.

    ---

    Establishing trade routes, in general, requiring protection will witness a burgeoning defense structure. Sea lanes must be secured, for instance, and a proper navy must be developed to enforce. On another subject archaeological digs in and through foreign lands would demand basic diplomacy (embassy and borders) with said civ or else ignore culture or take over those borders which digs lay behind. A warring nation from the get go may find resistance in gaining access to digs in hostile lands, but prior battles should provide the supply of digs available later in place of making the trip into opposing lands.
     
  2. treadwin

    treadwin Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Canada
    I really like the idea that founding colonies abroad and then founding trade routes with them, can be lucrative. Overseas possessions, even those with new luxury resources have always been slightly unrewarding as they push your city count up and often just cause a drag on your resources.

    They can often be counter-productive when going for a culture victory, or any other kind of victory for that matter. I'm hoping the tourism and trade mechanics make overseas possessions/empires a good idea.
     
  3. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,349
    A side note on your game... Oligarchy (in Tradition) is ideal for this... it keeps those Scouts Maintenance Free.

    Also, I'm not sure if an Archaeologist needs Open Borders (like a GP or a Missionary).. of course, just like using a Missionary/GP on someone it would make the person unhappy. (it might be fun to dig in the territory of a civ you are at war with (archaeologist with a Landship Escort :) )
     
  4. kingchris20

    kingchris20 Wisdom Seeker

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,343
    Location:
    Resident of Heaven; Currently in the Waiting Room
    One thing I'm not clear on, is does the receiving city have to have the granary also built inside it to receive a food route? or the workshop to receive the hammer route?

    Or is it just the sending city that needs those buildings?

    I mean I tend to think only the sending city needs it, but I'm not sure......anybody have confirmation on this?
     
  5. Aaron90495

    Aaron90495 King

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    926
    Location:
    'Murica
    My biggest problem with internal trade routes, if I understand them correctly, is that all cities provide the same amount of food (9) or production (4).

    Along with that, why would you ever want to send 4 production when you can send 9 food, thus allowing you to work far more than 4 extra hammers? Plus, sending production requires a Workshop, which is a worse building than a Granary...

    Do I have something wrong, or might these be legitimate problems with the internal trade concept?
     
  6. kingchris20

    kingchris20 Wisdom Seeker

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,343
    Location:
    Resident of Heaven; Currently in the Waiting Room
    We'll have to play to see, but your arguments sound valid to me.
     
  7. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,349
    Screenshots show the amount of food+production are the same for a sending city. But that amount changes based on some unknown factors (city population, era, etc.)
     
  8. Aaron90495

    Aaron90495 King

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    926
    Location:
    'Murica
    Oh, well if the amount sent depends on the sending city's population (among other things), that's fine. I was under the impression ALL cities sent the same amount, assuming they're in the same era.
     
  9. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,349
    We don't know what factors affect it (it could just be era) just that production and food are the same. And Something changes the amt.
     
  10. kingchris20

    kingchris20 Wisdom Seeker

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,343
    Location:
    Resident of Heaven; Currently in the Waiting Room
    Also, for your particular scenario of using production lines to fuel cities closest to the frontlines, there will also be airports to help facilitate unit movement more rapidly.
     
  11. asmartlittleman

    asmartlittleman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
    Messages:
    55
    I like domestic trade routes for diversifying the focus of your cities. You can have production cities, growing cities and gold cities with international trade routes. All the yields go to the city itself so you can have appropriate modifiers for that type of yield in that particular cities. I think having a mega trading city with international trade routes with a few smaller cities for expanding borders with a few domestic trade routes will be the way to go especially if you have a coastal mega city since it will be able to have better yields in both type of trade routes. You can have a small pop city that is near lots of production getting food while working those production tiles or a city near farms and luxs being able to keep up with production.
     
  12. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    Elmendorf, Tx
    The reason to send production instead of more food, is because the receiving city doesn't have the production tiles/specialist slots, or doesn't have the population to work more tiles. For example, the city is newly founded in the middle of a jungle with no production tiles.
     
  13. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,554
    Chop them Jungles@! :goodjob:
     
  14. pilot00

    pilot00 King

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    917
    This and the fact that the workshops once build on an empire wide basis, you can use those extra generated hammers to the city in question to build the ironworks and have a net gain of twelve hammers ;) or 8 from the wonder and ship those four into another city. I think trade routes will require work on understanding and micromanagement. It really sounds like a very interesting feature.
     
  15. Loopdy Doopdy

    Loopdy Doopdy Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    The Middle of Nowhere, KS
    I feel like these domestic routes could work well with certain Civ's abilities. For example, as rome I could send production to my capital to pump out buildings faster which in turn, would make all my cities get their buildings faster

    That being said, do we know how many domestic routes can be sent to each city? And are domestic routes restricted by the max number of routes you can have with international ones included?
     
  16. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    Elmendorf, Tx
    That takes quite a few turns. In the mean time, sending production to the city lets you get stuff built.
     
  17. Aaron90495

    Aaron90495 King

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    926
    Location:
    'Murica
    All of this is speculation, of course, but what's to stop you from sending four trade routes to a new city - for one turn, giving you an instant 36 food - and getting an instant ~3 pop city?
     
  18. SamBC

    SamBC Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,052
    Location:
    Lancaster
    Well, you have a limited number of trade routes, you're losing the income you could get from them otherwise, and can you send more than one from a single city to the same other city?
     
  19. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,349
    It doesn't seem like it. Each city-city trade route seems to have only one possible route (maybe 1 sea 1 land)
     
  20. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    7,893
    Location:
    Europe, more or less
    Also, there's a minimum run-time for the trade routes of x many turns which multiplies the :c5gold: you lose and the :c5food: you deliver.
     

Share This Page