Domination on Immortal/Deity - a noob's guide

Thanks Jack. I brought my spy home after I stole a couple of techs, then all the AI's (except Wu) started stealing from *me*. But China is still way out in front. I think she must have finished Flight just now and had enough gold to rush-buy a dozen planes. I should burn down Kaifeng even tho' it's a nice little city, just so she can't recapture it and use it as an airbase. I'm about 2 turns away from finishing my 3rd factory. I was planning to take Freedom, but Autocracy might be better.

Morocco is the other runaway, but he's not that far ahead of me in tech. I think I unchecked diplo, but don't remember.
 
Well, AI cheat a lot with gold and I don't care to much if steal me tech if I'm not leading; I always level spies. For domination go for Autocracy or Order. Most time I pick autocracy because with full tradition+ full honor + commerce + Big Ben and Pentagon is amazing gold and unit upgrade cost is ridiculous. At that time I start to focus cities on gold (with scientist specialist, not merchant) and switch to production only for some things like research lab. I keep focusing on production only on capi and second city for wonders and units. Neuschwanstein, also is pretty good with Autocracy because puppets always build castle. Prora helps a lot with happiness too.
You should crash China Asap without loosing troops and let Wu with 1or 2 cities in very bad spot with no wonder ofc, will be a good trade partner in the future.

Than you have to make a smart moove, checking the military power: if England is the first pay Elizabeth to declare war to Venice and Ethiopia (maybe China too, just for decreasing relationship) than denounce her and declare war in the same/next turn so you'll get al gold/lux back.
[But I'm thinking: Venice is very tedious, there is a risk he annex all city states and is better to wipe out of the game definitely. Try to check if someone near Venice can actually do this job for you for a small amount of money (dunno if Enrico will declare war to all just paying him..)]
 
I put Corinth where I did so it would have fresh water. Sparta is my coastal city...
Yes, the conventional wisdom is for one or four coastal cities, but in this case you traded freshwater for many unworkable ocean tiles and serious overlap between Corinth and your capital.
…and I don't remember but it might be where I built East India Co.
I like to put my Holy City and EIC in the same city, and I very much want that city to be Coastal. I did that this game.
I might still settle a fourth city when coal is revealed.
Settling that late is very poor play. The city will always be catching up; marginal for science, culture, and useless for unit production. Plus it pretty much means giving up on National Wonders, which are really OP.

Attached is my T135 empire when I settled on T1 and planned for a late DOM VC from the start. For a map that I initially found quite frustrating, I am ended up quite pleased with my city locations. There are at least 4 hexes between every city, I got a monopoly on gold, and the only resources in the area that I did not catch within a third ring was one wheat, maybe a couple of fish, and a stone.

My game was still too slow though, as I had to hold back votes on the last WL tally, to let the CV trigger the very next turn.
civ5ss-greece-4zxcvbob-t135.jpg
 
Hello warmongers. This is my first post on this website after several months of reading various posts. I know it is rather quiet here now and that the OP no longer uses this forum but I thought I would write a post anyway. Firstly I would like to thank the OP for this wonderful guide, I truly appreciate the fact he took the time to write such a comprehensive guide based on his wealth of knowledge.

I'm here because I want to improve my Deity ability, I'm looking for criticisms on my first Deity domination victory. I will attach the initial turn 0 save and the save just before the last capital is taken. The capital is on zero health and just requires the adjacent Landship to perform the killing strike. Yes you read that correctly, Landship! My CB rush, XB rush dynamite beeline ended up being a long and exhaustive turn 292 victory. But it was my first Deity domination win so I guess the turn time isn't the most important thing.

My love for Civ 5 started in November 2016. Prior to then I didn't know anything about the Civ franchise. I had heard the name but didn't know what it was about. November last year I watched a YouTube video and the game looked interesting so I thought I'd give it a go. I was hooked immediately, "just one more turn". I gave the game an hour and it would take a week. I was dreadful to begin with. My first two full games played on Warlord ended in time defeats. I just didn't understand the concepts of the game at first. After watching several series on YouTube I had learned enough to get my first win. A violent science victory with Denmark on Warlord. That was followed by a violent science victory with Greece on Prince. At this point I wanted a challenge so I jumped straight into the deep end and went from Prince to Deity. I searched on the internet the best way to win on Deity and came across this guide. This guide directed me to Acken's China game so I learned a lot from that too.

The closest I'd come to winning before my first win was taking three capitals playing as Poland. I was far too slow in that game though and my artillery were getting GWBered. All other attempts would end up me rage quitting after taking one or two capitals or rerolling the map after getting units killed stupidly. I wouldn't be surprised if it has taken me over 100 rerolls to finally find a map I could win. I have had a Deity victory though. After my domination failures I wanted to give a culture victory a try. I had watched Acken's Brazil game and was blown away by how good he was. I wanted to try an autocratic culture victory with Poland. This attempt turned into a turn 292 diplomatic victory. I was influential over the remaining Civ 9 turns later. If I had gone freedom the win would have been much faster. It is very coincidental that my only Deity wins were both on turn 292.

The game I want criticised is a Spain game on Pangea. Standard speed and standard size. This map got the most out of Spain's unique ability, 1500 free gold before turn 30 which I spent on workers, archers and a monument in my first expo. This fast start meant I took my first capital on turn 79 IIRC. My next capital was taken between 110-120, so too slow I guess. On route to the third capital is when I was considering quitting. The terrain was very difficult and I lost about 8 units from silly mistakes. I was completely bogged down and didn't take the third capital until after 170. Whoever loads the save can view the map and watch my empire expand, you can see for yourself the turn in which I took cities and the route in which I took them.

A good warmonger can easily win this map before turn 200, the route I took probably wasn't optimal. That and the fact I'm still very bad at maneuvering units. I lost 1 Spearman and 1 CB when taking my first capital. I lost several Pikemen, Horsemen, Forest Elephants, XB and a Swordsman on route to my 3rd capital. Maybe a few cannons as well. The Elephants were gifts from a CS ally so they were expendable, my other units I shouldn't have let die. I didn't lose a single unit when taking my 4th, 5th and 6th capital. Artillery is superb, combine it with war roads and Cavalry and it is difficult for a unit to be killed. My final capital takeover resulted in the death of 1 Landship and 1 highly promoted Artillery. My Anti-Aircraft Guns and Triplanes/Fighters did a good job of keeping the skies clear of GWBs.

If anyone wants to give my save a look over and give feedback that would be great. Also play the game yourself from the turn 0 initial save and see how quickly you can win.

I started this one but only played about 20 minutes. Built 2 scouts right way because Spain, researched Pottery first and built shrines before monuments or granaries. My scout found GBR on about turn 4 or 5 and I purchased a settler and settled Barcelona on the flatland tile close to GBR and next to the sheep, and bought one GBR tile. (I bought the other once the city grew) I've only met Morocco so far. I was also the first to find that holy mountain in the desert to the NW but I haven't settled it yet. I thought I was going to miss out on a pantheon, but managed to get the 3rd or 4th one and took One With Nature and quickly founded a religion. I forward-settled Morocco with my 3rd city, and settled on the west coast with my 4th. Social policies are all Tradition. Barbarians killed one of my scouts. I managed to build Great Lighthouse in Barcelona, but Morocco beat me to Hanging Gardens. And that's all I got so far.
 
The game I want criticised is a Spain game on Pangea. Standard speed and standard size. This map got the most out of Spain's unique ability, 1500 free gold before turn 30 which I spent on workers, archers and a monument in my first expo. This fast start meant I took my first capital on turn 79 IIRC.
@KingVercingetorix, is this a different Spain map than the one you shared in your recent thread?
That map would be fantastic for the struggling warmonger! I definitely will be playing that map again!
T0 screenshot (coastal river mountain hill, with salt): View attachment 477540
GBR to the SW, Sri Prada to the SE.
AutoSave_Initial_0000 BC-4000.civ5save file: View attachment 477551

Maybe I'm not switching my citizens from food tiles to hammer tiles soon enough.
Sorry for overlooking this before now, but manual citizen management is a newb trap. There are a few rare exceptions, but aside from when building settlers, manual citizen management is pretty much a waste of time.

It is something that the most veteran players love to promote, but it is very easy for the inexperienced player to cripple their early game by doing it poorly. In contrast, doing it well is very subtle, and only ever gives marginal returns over the default governor behavior.
 
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@KingVercingetorix, is this a different Spain map than the one you shared in your recent thread?
That map would be fantastic for the struggling warmonger! I definitely will be playing that map again!
T0 screenshot (coastal river mountain hill, with salt): View attachment 477540
GBR to the SW, Sri Prada to the SE.
AutoSave_Initial_0000 BC-4000.civ5save file: View attachment 477551

Yes, this was one is different. I remember playing it back in May. I was on the journey for my first Deity domination victory. After many failures with various civs I rolled a nice map playing as Spain. Their UA kicked in very early on which meant my CB rush (following Consentient's guide) was executed better than I'd ever done so before.

My ability has improved a lot since May. This victory would have contained so many mistakes. Knowing what I know now I'd have done a lot differently. If I loaded up the victory save I would probably cringe at my underpopulated cities, unchopped forests and any other mistakes a noob makes.
 
I started this one but only played about 20 minutes. Built 2 scouts right way because Spain, researched Pottery first and built shrines before monuments or granaries. My scout found GBR on about turn 4 or 5 and I purchased a settler and settled Barcelona on the flatland tile close to GBR and next to the sheep, and bought one GBR tile. (I bought the other once the city grew) I've only met Morocco so far. I was also the first to find that holy mountain in the desert to the NW but I haven't settled it yet. I thought I was going to miss out on a pantheon, but managed to get the 3rd or 4th one and took One With Nature and quickly founded a religion. I forward-settled Morocco with my 3rd city, and settled on the west coast with my 4th. Social policies are all Tradition. Barbarians killed one of my scouts. I managed to build Great Lighthouse in Barcelona, but Morocco beat me to Hanging Gardens. And that's all I got so far.

When I played this map (back in May) my train of thought was follow Consentient's guide. So I went for a basic 3 city NC CB rush. I'd do things differently now on that map. My play has improved a lot. What are your goals? You went Tradition over Liberty. Are you going for a CB rush or will you tech until XB and then Artillery? Also did you load my save before playing for yourself?
 
I looked at your save after playing it myself for a while. I didn't want to cheat by knowing where the natural wonders are. I went Tradition over Liberty because I had enough gold to buy my settlers and a worker so I didn't need to spend policies on them. To be honest, I'm not really sure what my goals are. (that's a very good question) Probably take out Morocco soon and then finish exploring the map and meet/greet everyone.
 
I looked at your save after playing it myself for a while. I didn't want to cheat by knowing where the natural wonders are. I went Tradition over Liberty because I had enough gold to buy my settlers and a worker so I didn't need to spend policies on them. To be honest, I'm not really sure what my goals are. (that's a very good question) Probably take out Morocco soon and then finish exploring the map and meet/greet everyone.

In hindsight I feel this map does suit Tradition better than Liberty. I used to be a big Liberty fan, but now I can see that in 8/10 games Tradition is the better choice. 4 city Tradition could work really nicely.

I loaded my save earlier so I could refresh my memory on the map. My cities were so underpopulated. If I had focused on growth a little more the victory would have come much sooner. Do you think you could post a screenshot of your current empire?
 
I still need to build markets and National College (at Barcelona instead of Madrid) and maybe Heroic Epic. And build roads. I can buy units with faith, so I probably want to settle one more city next to that holy mountain (don't remember its name) but not until I get NC up.
 

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I still need to build markets and National College (at Barcelona instead of Madrid) and maybe Heroic Epic. And build roads. I can buy units with faith, so I probably want to settle one more city next to that holy mountain (don't remember its name) but not until I get NC up.
Good call on NC in Barcelona. With GBR, 3 fish and internal cargo ships it should grow nicely. An observatory there also makes it the better NC choice.

Settling Mt. Sinai will provide crazy faith. +8 if you aren't Spain, +16 if you are. With One With Nature it will be providing +24. What do you think about this location?
20171004151638_1.jpg

It is quite a low food area unfortunately. Once you're working the fish, oasis and bananas there aren't many nice food tiles left. I reckon it will need cargo ships feeding it until the rest of the game. Petra there would obviously be lovely. Someone will probably build it within the next 15 turns though. Keep me updated on this game please!
 
The Mt Sinai city's job will just be to generate faith. It doesn't have to grow much or really do anything. Just slowly build a granary, library, market, walls, and maybe a lighthouse.

I built Great Lighthouse because it's a good warmonger's wonder. Obviously better to capture it than build it, but I decided I had enough hammers to go for it. I probably shouldn't have even tried Hanging Gardens, but I only wasted a couple of turns on it.
 
What do you think about this location?
It is okay IMHO, and if I play this map, I might settle there or maybe the desert tile right next to Sinai, as that means one more productive tile. OTOH, it is pretty far away, and generally weak. Faith is nice, but the GBR and OWN gives plenty. Barcelona as the Holy City is already extremely strong.

I might still build NC in Madrid even with Barcelona having the mountain and GBR. I would need to see how many turns it was going to be. Early game production from expos can be very frustrating.

I don’t really like where @zxcvbob put Seville. That works if you can kill Ahmad early, but otherwise it just will cause him to DOW you. It is far away, and through a mountain range. It will be hard to protect.

I would have put Seville three hexes S or SW on an inland mountain river tile. That misses the Sugar, and maybe even the Spice, but catches you three Gold, and pretty much gives a monopoly on that lux. At some point, where Seville is now, an AI will settle south of that to pick up the loose Gold.

I must say, these two Spain maps are so much better than anything I have rolled for myself!
 
I've played it several ways, and @beetle is right, putting Seville where I did is a losing move. It causes Ahmad to build tons of units and I can either keep renewing DoF's with him while building units (and he can build them faster than I can even with Holy Warriors) or he Dow's me and my supply lines are too long.

I should let Ahmad put a city there and make it into something nice, then take it from him. I'm playing again, going straight Honor and only settling 2 cities. I still put my NC in Barcelona to free-up production for Madrid. Heroic Epic will be in Madrid but I haven't got that far. I would love to have Mt Sinai, but it will increase my science and policy costs too much, and be hard to defend when I do goto war.
 
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Have you guys ever tried a deity game using the barbarian enhanced mod with raging barbarians turned on? I've been playing them as domination only and it is insane. By turn 100 there are usually only 2 or 3 AI left. Pretty much have to play deity since at any lower level by turn 100 they are all gone. The supply limit becomes a factor since it is hard to get out a settler. The barbarians usually tech pretty fast too. Very easy to still be using composites when musketman and knights are showing up. Fortunately you can keep promoting units past the normal 2 against barbarians so those composites have long range and logistics. It is a lot of fun and can be pretty difficult.
 
Is worth to wait founding your religion 3 turns by moving your settler to barcelona to found religion?
You mean moving your GPr, correct?

It is worth waiting a few turns to found in a coastal city. The main reason is that you want your EIC city to have as many trade routes as possible, so for most maps, that means you really want your EIC city to be coastal. But with all those TRs, your EIC city will lose its religion, unless it happens to be your Holy City too! And if your EIC is your Holy City, then the Tithe founder benefit generates more gold. It is also nice if your Heroic Epic city is coastal, since HE buffs ships as well as land units.

With this map, since Madrid is coastal, the main reason to move the GPr is to lock down the pantheon faith bonus (OWN). The AIs love to GPr bomb your cities, but mostly they skip your Holy City.
 
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I just wanted to drop by and say thank you for this guide. I have been winning pretty reliably on Emporer but struggling to make the step up to Immortal/Deity - my only wins on those difficulties were turtling Science/Cultural victories. Most other games I found myself rushed early on as I tried to build my infrastructure. I was at a loss as to how to protect myself from warmongerers, thinking that I was safest trying to be peaceful early on. Inviting an early war seemed counterintuitive. This guide made me realise that to protect myself from warmongerers, I had to become the warmongerer.

I started a new game as China, Epic speed, standard size Continents. I found a capital in what I later discover is the south-west of our continent, and shortly meeting Poland to my north. I ignore all my instincts and declare war straight away. I have gotten a few Archers out already, having stopped myself from building the usual buildings I might, and send them to support my Warrior, who is on worker-stealing duty. I steal two workers and a settler, and protect the land I want to settle for myself. I make no effort to get near their capital, just steal their civilians, maybe occasionally pillage, just being a nuisance while I get my second and third cities online.

By the time I peace out, I've got three good cities, and explored the rest of the continent. I have Spain in the South-east, America in North-east, and the Ottomans on a peninsula in the far east. Ottomans look scarily strong, but America and Spain are good friends, and I tech up, horde gold and beeline to Chu-Ko-Nos. I open Tradition, then fill out Honour. Instead of just making buildings in peacetime though, I make myself a proper army. 10 CBs, 8 melees (horsemen, swordsmen and spearmen), and a couple of catapults for good luck. Then, then turn Machinery hits, I upgrade all my CBs and declare war on Poland again. Now he annoyingly plonked a city in the middle of my empire while I wasn't paying attention, but it's cut off from his supply lines, and I simply shoot it to 0HP and let an allied city-state take it. Then I go north, my CKNs cut through his army like butter, and I take Warsaw (which houses Statue of Zeus!). By then, Spain have piled on them too and raze their last city after I shoot it to death.

Now, I have a DOF with both Spain and America, and the Ottomans are too far away to hurt. But I don't want to lose my window of opportunity with the CKNs, and I mistakenly believe that if I defensive-pact Spain and then bribe America to declare on them, I can declare on America without getting a backstab penalty. I'm wrong, but it doesn't matter, I breeze through America, wiping out their forces and taking Washington and New York (the latter was in a good spot and had a unique lux (and another in citadel-bomb range), so I kept it).

The Ottomans have crept out of their peninsula, founding one city and taking another from Spain. I bribe them to declare on Spain again, hoping they might be able to take Madrid and allow me to get that capital without having to betray my buddy, but they aren't interested so I just declare on them and take both the cities. They have their Janissiaries and XBs, which would normally scare me away, but having a proper army of CKNs makes conquering these two satellite cities child's play.

I've not peaced out yet, just farming some XP from their allied CSs. Their main empire is connected only by a two-tile land bridge, which is protected by one of these allies, so sadly I can't go much further at this point. I think my next move will be to build a navy and go conquer some cities on the other continent (where Dido has conquered the other civs there), while I build up some gold and convert the CS into my ally. But I'm in a great position - I'm level on tech with the leaders (Suleiman and Dido), I have 11 wonders (including Notre Dame, SoZ, Petra and Chichen Itza, and only one of them I built myself (Hanging Gardens, because nobody else went Tradition, plus there was a CS quest for it), nobody can threaten me on my homeland, and I've got a strong, promoted army, having only lost three units in four wars (1 CKN, a Knight, and a Scout on auto-explore). Not to count my chickens but I'm set up pretty nicely for a DomV.
 
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