Don´t like 1.17f - gone back to the first patch!

[Rushton]

I´ve started two games now with the latest patch and I found that the balance of the game has completely changed. Playing on a low level I usually get ahead by building loads of cities and then switch to temples and military when I have a scientific lead. But because of the new changes I never seem to get a scientific lead . In fact due to the AIs trading a lot, I seem to be behind and can´t be a science trader to fund my empire anymore.

I don´t like this much as the game is much more even on a low level (and feels much more like a higher level). Added to this are reported loss of resources and few luxuries.

So, I deinstalled and re-installed with the first patch. I don´t think there is much that is really useful in 1.17f (OK, the stacked movement is nice but little else) and I had a lot more fun before.

So, it is the first patch for me. What does everyone else think?

Paul (It´s not that I want it easy, I just liked the wheeling and dealing more)

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Me, too! Simply got sick of the me-vs-world style.... Also I had such an unlucky time with combat......

 

[loki]

Me too. I'm back to 1.16. I didn't like the tech devaluation.

loki

 

[stachnie]

Originally posted by Rushton
But because of the new changes I never seem to get a scientific lead . In fact due to the AIs trading a lot, I seem to be behind and can´t be a science trader to fund my empire anymore.

Well... at first I was disappointed and de-installed the patch but finally I have decided to install it back. It seems that being a scientific civ is much less profitable now. From the other hand, there is much better stuff from villages, even for non-expansionist civs. The key is to do minimal research in the Ancient era and obtain techs from goody huts or buy from other civs, build or rush the Great Library (Great Leader could be very helpful) and build a LARGE empire with a strong army. Later you could do either your own research (if your empire is really large with a well-placed Forbidden Palace, you WILL beat others anyway) or buy/demand techs from other civs.

I tried to do so (up to now, at the Regent level) and I've noticed that Aztecs are the most useful: military (more elite units -> greater chance for a GL) and religious (culture!) while their UU (Jaguar Warrior) in fact gives them extra Expansionist ability - what do you need to do is to build A LOT of them and send in all directions. Make sure that you have enough well-placed cities surrounded by roads and with proper city improvements and you will be able to gain techs in 4 turns and still have enough money to support improvements, army and even buy some techs from neighbours. If you want to keep your lead, forget about selling them YOUR techs - buy THEIR techs instead. And sell them resources/luxuries


Regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by stachnie



I tried to do so (up to now, at the Regent level) and I've noticed that Aztecs are the most useful: military (more elite units -> greater chance for a GL) and religious (culture!) while their UU (Jaguar Warrior) in fact gives them extra Expansionist ability - what do you need to do is to build A LOT of them and send in all directions. Make sure that you have enough well-placed cities surrounded by roads and with proper city improvements and you will be able to gain techs in 4 turns and still have enough money to support improvements, army and even buy some techs from neighbours. If you want to keep your lead, forget about selling them YOUR techs - buy THEIR techs instead. And sell them resources/luxuries

sadly this is one of very few possibilities, and it will often fail on Emperor/Deity.

the patch takes many possibilities out of the game....

 

[Grey Knight]

I'm going back to 1.16 also (I'll actually probably start playing around with modpacks!). Let's see, we have:

1. Massive tech trading, making fighting middle and industrial age wars pointless (I won my first war with horses, my second war will be with tanks -- and I'm a warmonger...)
2. Bombardment no longer works until late industrial

And in return we get:

1. (Buggy) Group movement
   [/list=1]
   Uh, thanks, but no.
   
   Jeers,
   Shawn
   Time to play with modpacks...

 

[Jimcat]

I was planning to download and install the 1.17 patch this weekend, but after seeing all the negative reactions, I decided it wasn't worthwhile. I'm still plugging away with 1.16.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Rushton
IPlaying on a low level I usually get ahead by building loads of cities and then switch to temples and military when I have a scientific lead. But because of the new changes I never seem to get a scientific lead .

One of the few games where I have gotten a significant tech lead on Monarch level has been since the last patch.

 

[roalan]

I read many BAD reviews about the new patch So I deceided to stick with 1.16

 

[FenrysWulf]

I started playing on a huge map at the same time I got the new patch, so I'm not sure how much of my problem comes from that and how much is from the patch, but I also noticed a few difficulties. As someone mentioned, the computer seems to get technologies incredibly fast and they expand super aggressively. One big problem is that I'm losing a lot more units in combat. It's not just that they don't always retreat when they get down to one hitpoint, but lesser units seem to be inflicting a lot more damage. I'll lose three cavalry on the same unit of spearmen, for example. Since I'm a conqueror, I don't care for this. I haven't switched back yet, but I'm considering it. I've also noticed that the time between turns is super slow, but that might be because of the huge map. I read an entire magazine in the downtime between turns one day.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by roalan
I read many BAD reviews about the new patch So I deceided to stick with 1.16

Good choice.

Firaxis took a flawed, underdeveloped game. . . and made it worse with 1.17.

The Human vs The World situation with 1.17 is a crock - and unplayable. Trade deals offered by the AI are EXTORTIONATE.

And Firaxis didn't even fix the absurd Culture Flipping garbage that forces us to raze city after city - and when we do everyone in the world not only hates us but sends settlers there instantly. I've even seen settler/pikeman pairs - of a civ I am at war with - just meander into my territory heading for the site of the razed city. I destroy them time after time. Boring, and stupid.

I also still have had even with 1.17 heavily garrisoned towns and cities flip, even though the civ they flipped back was losing the war and way behind me in all scores. The only thing that seems to count is proximity to the opponent's capital - and no matter how many times you capture that capital it instantly reappears in another town/city. Which is unrealistic, and destroys the importance of attacking the enemy capital as was the case in Civ II.

Recently ten of my units vanished in a fliping town of '5'. Which is why I have no problem going to AutoSave and either trying to increase the number of Happiness citizens, or just evacuating the garrison and then razing the city.

1.17 has improved NOTHING. Except stack movement which is good.

 

[Grey Knight]

I went into the editor and changed the 1.17f BIC file -- I upped the "tech rate" by 50% for each map size. We'll see what that does for reigning in the "industrial age? What industrial age?" crap.

Cheers,
Shawn

 

[Exsanguination]

cani just reload v116 or do i have to uninstall civ3 then, install the patch?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by Exsanguination
cani just reload v116 or do i have to uninstall civ3 then, install the patch?

I tried uninstalling 1.17, then reinstalling 1.16 - the main screen still said 1.17. So that didn`t work. Luckily I had a full copy of my CivIII folder before 1.17 (I had a hunch I better do that before I install the patch - divine inspiration ) which I simply copied over the one in which the game "runs". Now, everything is perfect!

If you don`t have a copy, I guess you will have to completely uninstall and reinstall civ. Sorry, I`d like to have better news, but uninstalling 1.17 and reinstalling 1.16 just isn`t enough....

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Killer
sadly this is one of very few possibilities, and it will often fail on Emperor/Deity. the patch takes many possibilities out of the game....

You're complaining because you can't maintain a tech lead on the higher levels.?!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by Zachriel


You're complaining because you can't maintain a tech lead on the higher levels.?!

for a smart person it was always possible to win via several different ways. OK, it takes a few tries, and no method is foolproof and works every time - but now I see almost every game go the same way - boring! If I put enough into research that - despite the AIs advantage - I get a military tech first, I want to be able to use that tech to n advantage, same as the AI does - but I can`t. Let`s say I develop Chivalry. By the time I produce my first Knight, I`m under attack by AI Knights...... see what I mean????? With 1.16 you can go a strange way in the tech tree and now I`m reduced to following the AI every time..... YAAAAAWWWWWNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

here Zachriel: this is what you have to go through now in order to have a fun game:

posted by Beamup in another thread:

I've come up with a way to stop the AI from trading like mad - make sure they have nothing to trade WITH! In the Ancient era, at least. Empty their treasuries, whatever you have to do in order to do so. It can be a reasonable choice to sell Writing or something for 10 gold if that's all they have, but it's better to clean them out for RoP's (they will pay through the nose for these) and maps. Keep in mind that, once you have Map Making, you can get a minimum of 2 gold off each civ each turn - sell your Territory Map for 1, then your World for 1. They will take this even if you have done no exploration since you last sold maps to them last turn. Also, give everyone contact with everyone else ASAP to keep them from trading that. Now, since they'll all have their research at 100%, the only way they'll get any more gold is from goody huts - and if you keep track, you can snap that up the next turn.

and no, I`m not willing to do that every turn! 1.16 did better in this respect.....

 

[Panda]

I finished my first game with 1.17 yesterday, and have no intention of going back to 1.16. In fact, I never finished the last 1.16 games since I got tired of manually moving 100+ units per turn.

No regrets at all

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by Panda
I finished my first game with 1.17 yesterday, and have no intention of going back to 1.16. In fact, I never finished the last 1.16 games since I got tired of manually moving 100+ units per turn.

No regrets at all

Good for you! If 1.17 was in any way conformal with my playing style (I love to experiment a lot) I`d also have stayed with it. And good that you show up here and do not flame anybody -

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Killer
here Zachriel: this is what you have to go through now in order to have a fun game:

posted by Beamup in another thread: . .

and no, I`m not willing to do that every turn! 1.16 did better in this respect.....

I liked Beamup's strategy.

I don't trade every turn though. But what I do is discover one very valuable tech, such as currency, banking, fission, etc. and sell it immediately to everyone else. This usually sucks them dry of any excess cash they have and keeps them generally pacified. Once you have all that income (up to hundreds per turn in the industrial age), you can concentrate on more techs.

I'm sure there are plenty of other strategies waiting to be discovered.