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[RD] Don’t Stay with Partners who Don’t Take Responsibility for their Mental Health

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BvBPL, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    Going to have to agree with Vincour. Let's replace a mental illness with a physical disability here. Civver's logic would imply that Stephen Hawking shouldn't be in a relationship once he got ALS because he needs a lot of support. Why doesn't one break off a relationship when your wife gets cancer, for that matter? The discrimination we have towards people with mental illnesses because of the false distinction that it's "all in your head" is utterly astounding. Considering how much we are seeing that this distinction is less than we previously thought - I heard that there might be a link between inflammation and depression, for example - I just don't see how we can shove that serious amount of blame.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
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  2. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    This seems inherently like a person problem and not a disability problem. Someone choosing to neglect you in a relationship isn't a trait born of mental illness.
     
  3. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    That's true. You have to judge for yourself, taking the relationship as a whole. If an otherwise healthy relationship becomes one-sided for a period of a few days or a few weeks, then there's probably no cause for alarm. Once it starts approaching the several weeks to months time frame, I'd say it's time to reevaluate. Waiting for someone to change can be a horrible trap.

    We all have a responsibility to put ourselves first, because nobody else is going to.
     
  4. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    Hmm, I agree with you in theory. However, the time frame you're presenting seems suspect to me. A lot of problems that cause imbalances can often last for over a year so expecting a two week turnaround time seems to be steeped in a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.
     
  5. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    Honestly I'm no relationship expert, I've only had terrible ones :lol:

    If you want to invest a year or more into somebody else on the hopes that will improve, that's your decision. You would have to judge on how much of an effort they are making to improve. I think a lot of times by staying with people in these situations you just enable them to not improve their situation. As sad as it may be, leaving them may be the best thing you can do for them.
     
  6. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    There's no therapy for Stephen Hawking, and a person with cancer can also do only limited therapy. If you had a mental illness for which there is no therapy, then that would be less obvious - because it puts more of an "ethical" responsibility on the partner, simply because the person who has the bad thing happen to them, has no way of doing anything against it.

    If there is therapy available for them, but they don't make use of it, then that's a whole different scenario. The same thing that applies to mental illness applies to any physical illness, if you have a partner who breaks their legs, gets told that they need to do physiotherapy to learn to walk again, but don't do it and instead lie in their bed and you have to do all the extra work for them, and it doesn't seem like you have what is required to convince them to get back on a more healthy path, then it's probably time to break up with them as well.
     
  7. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    I dunno. Maybe it's a sensitive issue to me because quite frankly, therapy hasn't worked for most of my life until about half a decade ago, and it wasn't simply because I "wasn't doing the work." I'm certainly doing a lot better now. But how are we talking about "making use of therapy" here? Is it the fault of the person if they can't connect to their therapist? What if the therapist isn't well organized, speaking in unhelpful vague terms, and not structuring things to do for the person?
     
  8. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    We're talking about a person who isn't even willing to try.
     
  9. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    I find somewhat sad the idea of relationship being "taking and giving".
    Certainly, at some level it's somewhat true, it's about a balance of what the relation provides with what efforts its requires, but I think it's healthier to see it as "a relation where you are happy to be", simple as that, and let the heart makes the count, not the head.
     
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  10. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    We all have neurological differences at birth. However, growing away from social norms is easier yet more harshly punished in modern societies.

    Basing your identity on a couple of arbritrarily described traits in a medical textbook is ironically an unhealthy way to base your identity on. You are grouped with people whom you have, on an individual level, nothing in common with and separated from those who do.

    You do not have to feel guilty about making 'social mistakes' due your 'disorder'. Try to make a distinction between people who have never recoursed to psychiatry and those who did. Notice the differences in their personal history.

    That seems like a ex-post facto rationalisation to justify "Autism"'s distinctness from "Schizophrenia". Hallucinations and delusional thoughts are the result from a lack a filtering ability - which may not at all be natural-born dysfunction but rather an environmentally induced one.

    Persecutory and paranoid beliefs are not at all dissimilar from mindblindness. In fact, I have yet to come to any psychiatric or psychological research theorizing that mindblindness may be result of paranoia and persecutory beliefs, which in turn may the result of stress.

    Antipsychotics are not a cure. These only serve to buy time.

    Peer abuse can be just as terrifying and damaging as parental abuse. However, 'ignorance of being bullied' is often considered to be sign of the 'social ineptness' characterestic of 'autism', even though it may actually be a dissociative mechanism.

    It'll be soon a new thread.
     
  11. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    This is really what the thread was about, right?

    While it's all made up and no one really knows for sure, DSM "cluster b" personality disorders are a) categorically not mental illnesses and b) intrinsically weigh on relationships because what defines such personality disorders is the motivations and actions in relation to other people.

    In the case of someone exhibiting BPD, if the partner is pushing Dialectical Behavioral Therapy then the "I hate you don't leave me" reaction is to see if you really love them, can handle them at their worst etc and take the lazy way out and not do the DBT.

    what does this mean?
     
  12. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Does that apply to people who are clearly in abusive relationships, too? If a woman is battered twice a week but is convinced that she's in "a relationship where she's happy to be"?
     
  13. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    Is that a thing? That, a happy person getting battered regularly, sounds pretty different from someone repeating the mantra that things are fine to keep it together. I've never heard of someone getting beat who is actually happy where they are. Perhaps afraid leaving is worse, but that sure is not he same.
     
  14. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    I've heard the "Yes he beats me sometimes, but that's because he has a hard time at work, and then he's sorry for doing it, too!"-mental gymnastics that some people go through to justify for themselves that they're happy and want to continue the relationship more than just a few times.
     
  15. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    Tovergieter, you post was personally offensive to me. Is this how you talk to people in real life? I highly doubt you're an expert on autism, grad student or otherwise, so keep your cool down. I'm 30 years old, have known about being on the spectrum for 17 years and am very introspective for quite a couple of years. This isn't how a friend or a stranger who talked to me would normally respond. I know the way I think, and am very well aware of both the strengths and weaknesses I have and of the intrinsicly autistic ways my mind is. From my perspective it feels like the equivalent of telling a gay person that his attraction is sinful. I would really appreciate if you could show some empathy instead of being an armchair psychiatrist.

    Besides the point since I've managed to fit in a socialized society, but even in the blank state, we live in a allistic (from the greek "other", like autism comes from the greek "self") and ablist society. It is a privilege that neurotypicals do not need the vast amounts of training to understand body language or when something is inappropriate.

    There are plenty of other communities of the disabled. Deaf have their own culture, so do blind, etc. Autistics are another one of them. And quite frankly they tend to have quite a bunch in common, typically being nerdy introverts although that's not necessarily the case. When I hosted an autistic science summer camp almost all of the children had common interests with me that I could discuss for ages. The best part was that I could advertise the strengths of autism which don't precisely because of the "disease" model that dominates - this is the offensiveness of your post - rather than the neurodiveristy model.

    More importantly, the identity of autism isn't the collection of traits. It's the minds and thought patterns that are intrinsically different from those that are neurotypicals which express to the external world as autistic behaviors.

    I mean I'm not even talking about social mistakes which lead to a severe lifelong depression because I couldn't connect with anyone. I recoursed there but it never helped me until a couple years ago when I had a breakthrough. It's offensive to me to say that I was never trying. I literally couldn't stop the reason behind why I was depressed until I finally found out that I had the capability to make a close friend when I finally had evidence.

    They've been distinct for at least 30 years and the issue is psychiatry is defining them in terms of externalized traits rather than the neurological differences.

    I know what mindblindness feels like and you're incorrect. It's a general obliviousness to the world around you - you don't feel that other peoples' minds exist. I can get mindblind again when I get anxious. It's easy to get paranoid beliefs if you can't know other people's mental states. Childhood paranoia can be of the sort "no one likes me ~ everyone is being mean to me ~ everyone is against me ~ no one understands me" and that's all due to the *experiences* one faces due to the mindblindness and triggered by anxiety.

    I was giving it as a counterexample between the two - Antipsychotics don't change autistic traits.

    Peer abuse doesn't *cause* autism, it's a result of the behavioral differences of the autistic person compared to allistic folk. It doesn't cause the behavioral differences. Certainly, co-morbidies like like depression and social anxiety can be triggered by peer abuse (as it was in my case) and they can last an incredibly long time - such as in my case - but it's damn offensive to assume that just because I had these doesn't mean that I didn't want it. It took a *lot* of work in grad school to overcome these issues.

    And we're not even undergoing the thoughts in the mind such as the repetitive thoughts, intrinsic fear of small change, detail-oriented thinking, difficulty seeing the big picture, hyperfocus, alexythmia, etc. - and quite frankly not all of these are bad things. The diagnosis set of autism focuses entirely on the negative and makes children hate themselves because they think that something is wrong with them when the approrpiate thing to do is to let them embrace their imperfections and differences and focus on how they can use their differences as strengths - as have I as a PhD student in Physics and a Data Scientist.


    http://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan/identity-first-language/

    People first tend to be of the sort "people with cancer" but that is because of the inherently all-negative nature of cancer as a disease. As the article says:

     
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  16. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    I don't think people are actually happy in abusive relationship, rather emotionnally captive.
    Personally I think people should get the hell out of any unhealthy relationship, and I don't really believe that people will "change" under pressure.
     
  17. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Agreed. I do however believe the same to be true for many of the "a relation where you are happy to be"-relationships that involve mental illnesses.
     
  18. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

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    Doesn't that make you one of the lucky ones? Your focus turned out to be in a useful and profitable area. Others I know are obsessed with things like porting vehicles from GTA into NFS and from NFS into GTA. Endlessly.
     
  19. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    Ten years ago that would've been me. But there is systematic thinking and pattern recognition involved there... Just have to guide or have the person discover a practical use.
     
  20. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

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    Like the Israelis with Unit 9900. Good to see you on the forums again though and thriving IRL. :)
     

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