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"Don't Cry for me Argentina!"

Discussion in 'Imperium OffTopicum' started by Birdjaguar, Apr 6, 2013.

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  1. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    A song about tabletop RPG games and at one point it's from a DM/GM's perspective and

    "When you enter this land, I'm in control
    I dictate every army, every foe
    Go ahead, take your chances, see what you roll
    Are you still alive?

    In the face of a thousand legions, no
    You won't assuage me, see where I go
    Crossing the wildest river flow
    It's the thing that unites us, this fantasy!"

    Why you calling me out like this
     
  2. gay_Aleks

    gay_Aleks communism will win.

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    literally no gm ever in iot has made a combat system that isnt terrible

    (except for sone when he stole from fate i guess but technically thats not really making it i guess)
     
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  3. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    See I just think back to the game Diplomacy with the very condensed, simplified war mechanics it has, and how it pushes players more towards the diplomacy/backstabbing element. But I guess the community tendency to reinvent the wheel foreshadowed the turn towards revolutionary thought. :p

    I get there was a desire to model the various nuances of war but we don't need to retread how quickly that just created a convoluted mess at best and destroyed the culture of cooperation and diplomacy at worst.
     
  4. gay_Aleks

    gay_Aleks communism will win.

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    1) we never got away from the civ model, meaning that we're stuck with in a rut and an impossibility to simulate anything other a white, industrialized society; any and all other games will inevitably crumble and rot

    2) personally i wouldnt bother if you wanna run a conspiracy-style game, you need to turn on the tv

    3) gonna add mao next to my signature
     
  5. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    Roll 2 Rule is still going strong despite its long stretches between updates :p
     
  6. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    The only good, working combat systems I have ever made were all stolen from actual games made by people paid to make resolution systems. Even the homebrew I do for my TTRPG stuff is usually drawn from somewhere and tweaked.

    I'd argue that Iron and Blood worked fine too other than that time somebody bureaucracy their way out of an invasion.

    Counterpoint: Why would somebody play PBP Diplomacy in 2019? Diplomacy? Fun game, I can play it online. Just typing in "Diplomacy game online" yields at least two websites offering to let you play it online, for free.

    The community doesn't reinvent the wheel. The community is trying to figure out a way to make PBP relevant in 2019 and the only way to consistently do that is by making your game different from what you can buy for $14.99 during a Steam Sale.

    There was a desire to model the various nuances of war because these games played in a backwater subforum of a backwater internet forum only stand out so long as they're different from what you can immediately get on tap anywhere else. If the goal is worldbuilding, than I proved you don't need a game in the first place. The playerbase of IOT VI-II managed to bootstrap a world and timeline from a vague point-of-divergence in a week and filled out every corner of the map with NPCs and factions by the end of the week after (which is why IOT VI-II still remains my favorite IOT). The cooperation there was real and meaningful.

    Instead, you end up in this situation where you have a part of the playerbase who looks at these rules (like Diplomacy and Risk btw) and conclude the goal is to, you know, win. That isn't a bad thing, but only if the GM is being honest and keeping that in mind when they look at orders and see how unfluffed they are. If the goal is diplomacy, forget about it. Diplomacy in these games are shallow because there's no nuance unless you're roleplaying, at which point you shouldn't be using Risk or Diplomacy, but Fate or another light generic system.

    Oh, no, we got away from the Civ model and went straight to the Paradox model. :)

    Nice.

    Does R2R not run off the assumptions of white, industrial, society?
     
  7. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    I mean yes, but that's not what I was suggesting. I just found the simplified, straightforward war mechanics a nice alternative to dice roll upon dice roll.

    An exact copy of Diplomacy as is would just be silly, I'm well aware you need to make tweaks that differentiate a game from something that's already a bunch of hard mechanics but where no one has to sit down with a spreadsheet for hours at a time.

    Plus, as mentioned, the game Diplomacy is cynical and encourages pursuing victory and maximum advantage. It makes no sense to copy it (wholesale, that is) if the goal is worldbuilding and roleplay. Heck, there's one more reason why they already assign you various real world historical powers. No roleplaying required.

    I was addressing the claim that white, industrial games inevitably collapse. :mischief:
     
  8. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    That's kinda the point I'm trying to make? What is the point in playing a game with conflict resolution systems from board games when people can just play the board games instead? Diplomacy doesn't work, at all, for a task or conflict resolution system on any level if the goal isn't to make a board game. The tweaks you would need to make it not be a board game would require someone to

    At some point, if the goal is worldbuilding, just ditch the mechanics entirely and pick up Fate or Kingdom or Microcosm and build something off of that. Its extremely difficult to have games that, allegedly,

    1. Are competitive
    2. But not too competitive
    3. Are about worldbuilding
    4. But open to anyone ranging from munchkins to people who write four pages of roleplay every week

     
  9. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    I don't always change world maps mid-game.

    But when I do, it's because it fits in with the lore of Bring the Fire.

    (Also the hexes were liable to become ludicrous with my increased time constraints, so, simpler map gogogo)
     
  10. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    I'm surprised someone is still citing Iron and Blood as an example of a combat system that "worked fine". Not to toot my own horn but beep beep.
     
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  11. Thorvald of Lym

    Thorvald of Lym A Little Sketchy

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    Hey dad! Didja get those Pop-Tarts yet?
     
  12. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    You are like Valve

    Your projects may come out very infrequently, but they are invariably masterpieces
     
  13. JohannaK

    JohannaK Heroically Clueless

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    Is it the best combat system in the world? Probably not, but it is well matched to the scale and game system. That's really something.
     
  14. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    It's always fun to have wandering GM syndrome where you are GMing one game but you already have ideas for like 5 more in your head.

    If only I had the resources and know-how to be a game dev hahaha
     
  15. Double A

    Double A ♫We got the guillotine♫

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  16. gay_Aleks

    gay_Aleks communism will win.

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    genius, why no one has thought of doing this in IOT
     
  17. JohannaK

    JohannaK Heroically Clueless

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    You kid? This is the Book of IOT, and these are our most holy traditions.
     
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  18. ZeletDude

    ZeletDude The Lion

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    Hi everyone. Long time no see. Is there a chatroom, I want to come say hi and see if anyone remembers me.

    Cheers
     
  19. JohannaK

    JohannaK Heroically Clueless

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    There is! I think in NinjaCow's signature.
     
  20. Defacto

    Defacto Stay safe

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    Hello
     
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