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"Don't Cry for me Argentina!"

Discussion in 'Imperium OffTopicum' started by Birdjaguar, Apr 6, 2013.

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  1. Tolina

    Tolina communism will win.

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    For the 10th anniversary, IOT gets the sweet, sweet mercy of death.

    Also, videogames exist and don't take 3 months to update.
     
  2. Danwar

    Danwar Warlord

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    Videogames are also manufactured by machines and are unable to replicate the creativity and immersion of an IOT. Machines make mistakes and do not know that these are mistakes because they're machines and inherently apathetic to anything not in their code, but people do care about mistakes and so can study and fix them as time goes on.
     
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  3. Tolina

    Tolina communism will win.

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    uh no videogames are done by humans, written by humans, etc; not by "machines". They're played by machines, but by that argument, you could say that IOT, being on a browser, also is inherently uncreative and is full of mistakes and apathetic code - I mean, you're just getting zeroes and ones in the form of text, man.

    pretty cool erasing all of the effort artists & videogame folks put in tho
     
  4. Danwar

    Danwar Warlord

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    When's the last time you've clipped through a wall in a forum game without that being explicitly allowed by the game's premise? Or refined determining how the AI will work to an exact science in an IOT? Or, to provide the opposite viewpoint, when was the last time you were able to establish an entire fully-fleshed out culture, religion, species, and nation from the ground up without having to dedicate months of your life to making a full-on mod for it and then playing that nation-state/commune/whatever throughout thousands of years of history? Videogames have limitations that IOTs simply don't - and computers don't have common sense either. A human hosting an IOT has common sense and dictate whether a given action is a valid action in real life or just gaming of the rules. A game developer can't possibly anticipate every background and set of reactions for everyone in the world that might play their game, so the programs they write, good as they may be, are despite that prone to flaws - for example, the world of 769 being somehow entirely united under the Roman Empire with a restored system of ancient Hellenistic cultism and that empire ruling from Spain to China under one absolute and centralized government, or a Han Chinese Tengri ruler conquering all of Mali and ruling it for hundreds of years.

    Video games do not have common sense, as they are simple programs that do not absorb the entirety of the minds of those who coded them no matter how hard those coders try. However, a host of a given IOT does have access to their entire mind and can use it to solve any situation rationally as opposed to allowing that Han Chinese Tengri pagan to adventure all the way to Mali and then conquer it without support from the locals. Video games are a great medium, but at their core, they have far less capacity for realism than an IOT can. Long updates are just the price we pay for that.
     
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  5. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    I've been GMing for ten years and I'm not sure players have common sense either.
     
  6. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    Indeed, one of the big advantages of IOT over video games is its freeform capacity, things that escape easy quantification and so a computer can't really do them. Long ago I - as many others - realized that ultimately, this subforum should play to the advantages of the format, rather than try to emulate a Paradox or Civilization title. Mechanics that serve to structure rather than be the alpha and omega are the goal. The advantages of the format are freethinking GMs who can use their fiat to keep things from getting too crazy, freethinking players who are both cooperative storytellers and clever rivals, and above all the uniqueness that human interaction can yield compared to the dry, scripted behavior of AI.

    Of course, it's a theoretical advantage. A game can be fantastic with a very disciplined GM and structured yet not omnipresent rulesets, or become infamous when failing on these measures. I'd know that better than anyone.

    I'm not surprised people choose the predictability, if often broken predictability, to the broken unpredictability of human GMs. :p

    ***

    Meanwhile, not to toot my own horn too much, but that ties into some things I'm trying to capture with the new Multipolar Politics. Spending is largely automated now, so most of the turn by turn gameplay will be on policies and diplomacy.

    With regards to war, conquest is extremely difficult, particularly against another player, so I expect to see it in a more limited fashion than other games I've held. I have often heard many players say that the threat of war is actually more exciting than war itself, so I'm hopeful the military mechanics leave war as a possible menace, but one that rarely breaks out.

    And, handcuffing myself for the benefit of the player base, NPCs are almost entirely reactive to player-initiated actions towards them. Using modifiers to model pre-existing relationships and national values with dice rolls that mitigate any unconscious biases of mine, I'm hopeful to deliver a somewhat less crazy experience than the original Multipolar World.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  7. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Interim President of Civfanatica Supporter

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    Common sense is a near meaningless phrase.

    Gotta side with Danwar here. Running and playing in IOTs gives me pleasure that I don't really get from playing Stellaris or similar games. And in the end that's all that really matters to me. There are unique strengths of IOTs that simply cannot be replicated in a video game.
     
  8. Takhisis

    Takhisis brown-haired beauty

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    Six months or so ago I had a major blunder in a mafia game that forced me to start the game anew.
    So humans do make mistakes. Or at least I do.

    I like both things, computer games and games hosted and run by humans. But there does seem to be a tendency towards ‘tech… shiny!’ that makes a lot of people undervalue the human touch.
     
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  9. Danwar

    Danwar Warlord

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    My point is that humans do make mistakes, but they also have the capacity to easily fix them by going into the stats, changing a few numbers, and writing the mistake down somewhere so you don't do it again in future updates. Videogames, on the other hand, have to have their code rooted through and fundamental problems with it fixed, and any bugs almost certainly aren't going to be usable in your play session even when they do come out.

    Videogames, as I said, aren't bad (in fact I really like them), but they just don't have that same intricacy as a thing run entirely by humans instead of a program with outcomes the developers cannot forsee.
     
  10. Decamper

    Decamper ..!

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    Sometimes I want to sit with some friends and roll some dice. Sometimes I just want to play Baldur's Gate.
     
  11. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Interim President of Civfanatica Supporter

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    The IOT moderation team has unanimously decided that Discord is too good and has too many features that we have decided to move to a different platform permanently. This platform you will surely agree has a much nicer and more elegant experience than Discord. Over the next three days (April 1-3) we will be transitioning to this new platform and both servers will remain open. After this transitional period, we will convert the Discord server to a memorial to EpicIOT, the greatest IOT ever hosted. The new and improved chatroom can be found here: http://apriliot.chatango.com/
     
  12. Tolina

    Tolina communism will win.

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    DMed NC just now, it's not a joke, folks. We're going back to our roots, back to Chatango. I already feel happier, without any of the excess features that Discord has. I suggest you all come aboard.

    I have also been told that no Marxism is allowed, but only shirtless wolfmen. Just think what you're missing out.
     
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  13. Thorvald of Lym

    Thorvald of Lym A Little Sketchy

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    > apriliot

    you madlads, you actually modded civet
     
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  14. Danwar

    Danwar Warlord

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    It's not even April 1st yet, can't you wait until the day itself to start making these jokes?
     
  15. Robert Can't

    Robert Can't Grantaire

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    It is the day, its been the day for about 10 hours. Check your clock.
     
  16. Danwar

    Danwar Warlord

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  17. Robert Can't

    Robert Can't Grantaire

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    Yes me
     

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  18. JohannaK

    JohannaK Careless Whisperer

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    There is only one truth and Rosie has it grabbed by the groin.
     
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  19. Robert Can't

    Robert Can't Grantaire

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    I'm launching a new IOT that will be both new and amazing in which you can try to save humanity from certain doom. It is called The Ends of the Earth and is found here
    It also happens to not be a joke. So that's pretty good going by today's standards
     
  20. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    It occurs Turn 1 of Multipolar Politics may actually fall on April 1st. Hoooo boy.
     
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