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Don't use Win 10

Discussion in 'Computer Talk' started by Fins, May 18, 2016.

  1. Fins

    Fins Chieftain

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    Forgive me this off-topic, but i feel i must warn fellow Civ fans here.

    Don't use Windows 10.

    I have insider information that Microsoft plans to change Windows 10 into pay-per-month one year since its formal non-beta release. I have no idea how much per month it'll be, but knowing Microsoft pricing policies, i doubt it'd be insignificant amount...

    And, of course, it spies on you, too. Of course, Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and server versions are spying too, unless you prevented (or removed) corresponding updates as described in http://www.infoworld.com/article/29...w-all-collecting-user-data-for-microsoft.html - but in Windows 10, there is LOTS more of such problems, and much of communication between any Windows 10 machine and Microsoft server - two-way communication, - can't be disabled despite what user may think on the subject, as reported by http://thehackernews.com/2016/02/microsoft-windows10-privacy.html .

    Stay safe!
     
  2. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Moderator Action: Moved to Computer Talk.
     
  3. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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  4. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton Master of Nothing and Everything

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    It is an interesting thought experiment to imagine a monthly windows fee.
    I'd predict new professional competition and the eventual break-down of the practical monopoly on non-apple desktop PCs. Hence why It presumably won't happen. But what a thought
     
  5. Azash

    Azash La Sombra

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    It's highly unlikely that Microsoft would try to do this. The main source of income for the Windows division is OEM installs. In essence, when you buy a computer (an assembled one), you get Windows with it. The other source is people buying Windows 10 for upgrading, or for installing on their own build. A lot of money is also lost to people who illegally download Windows, of course.

    All these sources combine to one fact: people will always keep buying Windows, for as long as it maintains dominance and the OEM chokehold. Microsoft has no reason to follow through with such an obviously bad idea. The other income they have, such as from consoles, cloud services and Office, is irrelevant to Windows 10's revenue model. Microsoft are likely very much aware that Windows is expected to be there. Especially for the (large) subset that is functionally computer illiterate, Windows is.. There. A given. For this subset, a switch to a monthly model is not something to conform to. Windows can't make itself apparent, because people who are not directly aware, whether constantly or at all, of Windows will refuse to support a recurring fee.

    Microsoft's best bet for maintaining Windows revenue is to keep it the most interesting and useful OS for PC users and make sure that people get a new license every couple of years.

    Bringing up Linux here is a very good point. Right now, Valve are investing into R&D on Steam Linux. There are teams purposely formed and maintained for working on the Linux UX. Even the PS4 has proof of concept for running SteamOS. With evolutions like PlayOnLinux borne out of Wine, the gap between Windows and Linux is, for the slightly savvy user, narrowing constantly, and consoles won't require any more expertise than working an Android phone when discussing Linux domain knowledge.

    What this means is that even though OSX remains mostly the domain of Mac hardware, with some notable exceptions, PC won't remain so thoroughly Windows in the personal desktop environment if Microsoft upsets their own position. Even with less funding, Linux is constantly growing closer to the average consumer. A widespread rejection of Windows would mean more donations from private individuals, more investments from the private sector, and lead to an accelerated and focused Linux surge. Microsoft lately has been publically cooperating with Linux and other OSS projects and, under the radar, engaged in copyright trolling and restricting the same. It's obvious they are very worried about Linux, more so than they have been for a while. They can understand the risks involved and won't flaunt their dominance when they stand to lose it.

    And as a final note, if you do feel like trying Linux, avoid using Arch as your first distribution (version) of it. There are much friendlier ones out there, like Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu, or Linux Mint. Arch falls more toward the technically minded people who don't mind putting up with exposed complexity and the occasional issue or re-do. While it's not Gentoo or LFS or Alpine, Arch is not for the first-time user considering its general approach and the frequent spanners thrown out by Pacman, the software management tool used by Arch.
     
  6. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I've been running win 10 for almost a year now. What I find annoying and don't understand is why does it always seem to be churning my HDD? In the past Windows seemed to quietly rest until called to action by my doing stuff, but with 10 the HDD is going going going all the time.

    Anybody know what's up with that?
     
  7. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    You should be able to check with the Win10 task manage which process is using the disk?

    That, and HDDs (vs SSDs) aren't really appropriate for modern PCs.
     
  8. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    thanks.

    I checked Task Manager and it seems that three things keep the system busy:

    Compatibility telemetry
    system & compressed memory
    System protection background tasks

    Do you know what they do or if they need to be done?
     
  9. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    First collects telemetry, you can control setting under settings -> privacy -> feedback & diagnostics.

    Second is related to pre-fetching or low memory... should either by low-priority in the first case, or not really avoidable in the second. Also potential bug with fix in the first reply here.

    Third is something to do with antivirus/antimalware.

    First and third should be low priority so shouldn't affect usage much, and should stop after a while if you leave the PC alone.

    Additionally, if you're running an OEM image of Windows rather than your own clean install, or an MS Signature Edition PC, that's liable to cause all sorts of problems. Biggest problem Windows has, IMO.
     
  10. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Most helpful, especially the link. I followed its instructions and rebooted. That seems to have helped and I'll watch things going forward. I am running a MS downloaded install for Win 10 that upgraded me from Win 7.
     
  11. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Windows 10 is now forcing itself onto Win7 and 8 users! :mad:

    Clicking the X to exit the message in the top right now agrees to auto-install at a future date.
    God help you if you aren't at your computer when the final 15 minute countdown popup appears.

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/3073...dows-10-pop-up-tricks-you-into-upgrading.html
    http://www.wnd.com/2016/05/bill-gates-of-hell-windows-10-hijacks-computers/
    http://www.infoworld.com/article/30...-windows-10-upgrade-heres-how-to-recover.html

    HELL

    and DAMNATION

    Why would I want an OS with a gutted Control Panel?
    It's like getting a new car and the hood is welded shut for my own protection. -_-
    This is malware!
    Where are the lawyers?
     
  12. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    The old control panel is still in Win10.

    I have a hard time really caring about automatic upgrades, anyone who's tech-savvy enough to have a good reason to be running an old version can rtfm and disable the autoupdate.

    One of the fancy new features of Android N is seamless updates like Win10/Chrome OS/Chrome already do.

     
  13. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Like I predicted from the start: Seven months later, Valve’s Steam Machines look dead in the water
     
  14. Quintillus

    Quintillus Civ III Forum Resident Supporter

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    I have to say changing the behavior of "X" from the universal "cancel out" to "install Windows 10" is pretty devious. Even popover ads nearly always respect the X-as-cancel convention.

    That said, I agree with Azash, it would make no business sense for Microsoft to start charging a monthly fee for Windows 10. I've heard that conspiracy theory before, but never an explanation of how it works out well for Microsoft over the long-term. Sure, they'd make money at first, but millions of people would think their computer was hijacked, and it might be the one way to make the Year of the Linux Desktop actually happen.
     
  15. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    To be fair, Windows is basically going to a subscription model, except Apple and Google have pushed the subscription value of operating systems to zero as their products are subsidized by hardware and ads, respectively.
     
  16. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Well, since using the above fix the 100% disk usage has returned to a lesser degree.

    with some regularity, my disk usage ramps up to 100% for an hour or so. When I open Task manager, it shows 100% usage, but none of the items listed under that column show more than 0.2 or 0.3 MB/s. Most items are at zero. It seems that whatever is using the disk isn't showing up.

    Any more ideas on the matter? Windows defender is turned off.
     
  17. Quintillus

    Quintillus Civ III Forum Resident Supporter

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    Do you have Show Processes from All Users checked in Task Manager? It could be a system/anti-virus process that shows up under a different username? In particular, anti-virus programs vary widely in how resource-intensive they are. I've seen Norton 2016 use 100% of disk even for a couple minutes after idle time ends, but others are light enough that it's hard to notice them.

    Disk usage can be difficult to diagnose though, since it can be system processes such as Superfetch than get lumped into System or svchost.exe or something like that in Task Manager.

    I agree that Windows is going to a non-upfront subscription model, with Windows Store and Cortana/Bing as the revenue drivers. It'll be awhile before that catches up to licenses sold with new computers, if it ever does, but it's certainly the new model for Microsoft. I'm not sure I like it, but it's how they want to go.
     
  18. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Here is a screen shot of TM. I believe that all processes are showing. Three are 80 or so listed. Avira is my anti virus.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Quintillus

    Quintillus Civ III Forum Resident Supporter

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    A fellow Vivaldi user, I see! While I'm currently split between Opera 12 (which is what I use 80%+ of the time for CFC), Firefox, and Vivaldi, that's the browser that I have the highest hopes for in the future.

    Nothing looks like it could account for 100% of the use. 0.2 MB/s wouldn't add up to that even on the slowest disk. I realize now that I check that I don't actually know if/where the "Show all processes" toggle in Task Manager is in Windows 8/10. In Windows 7, with UAC enabled, you have to tick that box to show system processes. It looks like your Task Manager may be showing all processes, but I'm not familiar enough with Task Manager in 8/10 to say for sure (although the charts are much improved over 7).
     
  20. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I didn't see a "show all processes" check box either. At the moment, my disk is behaving. This drive thing is pretty mystifying to me.

    I haven't been using Vivaldi long, but I like it better than the Opera version I had been using.
     

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