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Doubts about "Revolutions" and other mechanics

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by Wesley balestrini, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Wesley balestrini

    Wesley balestrini Chieftain

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    I have some doubts and I decided to write in a single post, I hope they do not mind. I'm using google to translate, so if you do not understand something I can try to explain it better.
    I would like to have separate topics in "spolier" for easier reading, but I have not found the option.


    Doubts 1 - Revolutions:
    I am with the Mali Empire (East Africa) with 9 cities in the African continent.

    During the Renaissance I expanded to the southern Amarica, colonizing in particular areas where Brazil is (in real life). I built about 10 cities there.

    The problem is that they were in constant revolts. On the city's screen, there were many more items favoring the local order than on the contrary. The only "complaints" were monarchy, distance from the palace and colony. Note how positive I had buildings and all other types of civics in my favor. Even so, the revolution only increased, forcing me to stay paying bribes.

    This was only solved when I adopted democracy and now I am in the "safe" state.

    I would like to know if it is really impossible to have so many cities without all the civics supporting the idea or if eventually my cities would already be good without adopting democracy.

    I noticed that the "village hall" grants +3 stability points per turn. Is this cumulative infamously (to the point of overcoming the negative points of my government)? Is it possible to check these points?

    Is it possible to build an empire? Or would my realm eventually collapse (as it always did in real life)?

    I Build a wonder that reduces maintenance, near the new cities. In my mind, that would be to centralize some of the power in that region. Therefore, it should reduce the negative points for "distance from the palace"; Right? Since the local population would not have to wait for orders from the capital, It seems reasonable and is already a suggestion.

    Doubt 2 - Trade:
    I can not figure out where my earnings go by commercial route in my cities. Is this hidden now?

    Doubt 3 - Pollution:
    Does the mod change any mechanics of pollution? If yes, how?
    [Edited] By "pollution" I mean Global warming and related events. And not necessarily the local unhealthiness of each city.

    Doubt 4 - Control Zone:
    I noticed that some buildings exert a control zone on the adjacent tiles. What does that mean? Is it just the 8 tiles round the city or the "fat cross"?

    Doubt 5 - Working lands:
    I have the option that allows you to work with the biggest radius of the city. The building "Metropolitan Administration" informs that it will expand the working radius of the city. But some cities are allowing it without this building. I'm still not sure about any corelation between them, just know that the cities that are allowing this are large, over 20 population.

    After all, is this building necessary or not?

    Doubt 6 - improvement "industry":
    In some areas I am not able to build the improvement "industry", being necessary to build a "workshop" first and let it evolve. Are there any rules I'm forgetting?
     
  2. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Holding a big empire, and especially an overseas empire, is supposed to be difficult under Revolutions until you reach the later eras. Distance to Palace is a huge component of the increase in the revolution index that eventually triggers revolts. Building Airports and Power Plants will really lower that number, but those aren't available until the Industrial Era. Before that, the best things you can do are build Walls and Castles/Star Forts to enhance garrison forces and spread Religions. I think Religions is a very big factor in stable vs. unstable for the early game, and is probably too big a factor. There aren't enough other factors to equal the effect you get of having a state religion.

    If you want to see what the actual numerical components of the revolution index change are, open the Revolution Watch Advisor with Ctrl-Shift-G and switch to "Revolution Cheats". Pay attention to that distance to Palace number; you will probably see that is much larger than many other modifiers.

    Building a Government Center wonder, which is any building that lists "Reduces Maintenance in Nearby Cities", counts as a reduction for distance to palace for the building city only. So you can use Forbidden Palace or other such wonders to create an "anchor" city that won't revolt, but cities around it are still likely to revolt.

    You can look at your Revolution Difficulty modifier and see if you can lower that to reduce your revolution problems. It's under the BUG options (Ctrl-Alt-O), RevDCM tab, bottom of the screen. I think it starts at a difficulty of 5.0, but I always play with it on 0. I get enough revolutions that way.

    Village Hall affects only the city it's built in, but of course you can build one in each city. A Village Hall reduces the local instability of its city by 3 points each turn. This can offset other penalties in the city or penalties from national instability. The national stability factor is a huge mess of code and I don't quite understand it myself. I think it is a common problem of modders to throw in as many possible modifiers as they can think of and then not do so great a job at documenting them or making them visible to the players. Civilization as a whole is pretty good about making these numbers visible, but I can't even find a place where the national stability is displayed.
     
  3. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Trade Routes run under a different system compared to BTS. The computing effort to track the best-connected cities and calculate the appropriate commerce was growing too fast to be worth the time.

    The system AND uses is to track the number of domestic and foreign connected cities; then buildings such as Ports calculate commerce production based on those numbers; then modifiers from civics are applied to the total commerce generated. So making connections to other cities doesn't do anything by itself, but it will help your buildings produce commerce.
     
  4. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Could you post a screenshot of a tile that can build a Workshop but not an Industry? There is some inconsistency in the XML code and I would like to know what that can actually trigger in-game. It's an easy fix to make them identical, but I'd like to see what you are getting first.
     
  5. nionios

    nionios Chieftain

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    About Control Zone:
    It's for the 8 adjacent tiles.Especially for Radar Station I've checked that it works also for water tiles.

    About working lands:
    With enabled option for bigger radius you can work tiles at range 3 if your city reaches a certain culture level - if I'm not mistaken.But if you build Metropolitan Administration you can work such tiles even if you haven't yet reached that culture level - if I'm not mistaken (again):).
     
  6. Wesley balestrini

    Wesley balestrini Chieftain

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    Follows an image. In both lands with worker it is not possible to make an industry. I believe the problem lies in the "marsh"



    About control zone:
    But what does this actually do in practice? What is your application in the game?

    About working lands:
    The building "metropolitan administration" (which allows to work more land), requires a city with population 25 and an "influential" cultural level or better.
    I own a city that already has these characteristics and already allows me to work more land. But I do not have this special building.

    Was it a bug?
     
  7. nionios

    nionios Chieftain

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    Zone of Control is applied around a tile.
    It means that any attacking unit cannot move from one adjacent to any other adjacent tile.It should either leave the adjacent tile and go back or attack directly the tile that exerts the ZoC.
    Example:
    When an attacking unit is adjacent to a defending city with Radar Station then has only two options.Either attack the city or retreat.It cannot move to another tile that is adjacent to the city.
    Same for units with ZoC promotion.
     
  8. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    Here's how Larger Cities works. It's not adequately documented. From what you posted, it sounds like Larger Cities is on for your game.

    If Larger Cities is ON, cities can work tiles in their third ring once they reach Influential culture. No building is required.

    If Larger Cities is OFF, then cities require a Metropolitan Administration (or Capital Administration) to work tiles in the third ring. Metropolitan Admin also requires Influential culture and size 25 to build.

    Regardless of option, working the third ring of tiles is always possible, but the option covers whether or not you need the special building. Unfortunately, I think it's reversed; turning the Larger Cities option on means you DON'T need the building, while leaving it off means you DO. But messing with game options is something we don't want to do because it's one of the things that can break savegame compatibility.
     
  9. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    This is what I suspected. A Workshop can be built on any flat Grassland or Plains tile, or any tile with access to Fresh Water. An Industry can be built on any flat Grassland, Plains, Desert, Tundra, or Ice tile. You have Marsh tiles with access to Fresh Water, so you can build Workshops but not Factories.

    I don't mind Workshops on Deserts, but I'm not so sure about allowing Workshops on Marshes.
     
  10. IPEX-731BA5DD06

    IPEX-731BA5DD06 Chieftain

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    spoiler option is
    Spoiler :
    [don't add italics spoiler] add forward slash / to spoiler in brackets to close it off
     
  11. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    That makes sense - if you want larger cities without the Met Admin, you switch the option on. If the option was called "Met Admin Required", then I'd agree with you.
     
  12. Wesley balestrini

    Wesley balestrini Chieftain

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    It was not very clear to me. What did you say is a rule of the game or a bug?
     
  13. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    The rules are working as written, so I wouldn't necessarily call it a bug.

    Each individual improvement has a set of XML tags that define if it is legal to build an improvement on a given tile. One of these tags is <bFreshWaterMakesValid>. If this is turned on, then as long as the tile has fresh water -- that is, adjacent to a river, lake, improvement that spreads irrigation, or city with a fresh water-providing building -- then the improvement can be built.

    This tag is currently turned ON for Workshop but OFF for Industry and Industrial Complex. I will turn it on for Industry and Industrial Complex so that all three improvements are consistent.
     
  14. Wesley balestrini

    Wesley balestrini Chieftain

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    And do you know if this activation will come out in the next update? Or do not have a forecast?

    And about pollution, does the mod change anything compared to BTS? I ask this because I am deepening in the industrial era and would like to know what awaits me.
     
  15. Vokarya

    Vokarya Chieftain

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    I don't know about pollution. That is buried deep in the DLL code.

    Industry will be fixed whenever I release a new update, which won't be until the civic changes are completed. The Graphics FPK file is a big file, so I don't want anyone to have to download it more than once.
     
  16. Wesley balestrini

    Wesley balestrini Chieftain

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    Thanks for the answers!
     
  17. recluce

    recluce Chieftain

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    I have come back to play Civ 4 after a long break. New computer, new install. As a casual Civ player, I used to enjoy A New Dawn a lot. However, I find the current version borderline unplayable and not fun at all. Basically, you are royally screwed if you play on an "RoM Islands" map and try to grow beyond your single island, especially if that island lacks vital resources (iron and copper).

    Any new island is seen as a "distant location" and a "colony". First, it takes ages to make a connection to the capital possible across an Ocean at all (I believe it is the "Navigation" technology that is needed). However, for some reasons, some existing cities were still not connected and lacked all main-land resources. Newly founded cities on the same island/continent and with road connections to the "no resources" cities showed all resources available. What the heck? Where does that make sense? Besides erasing the troubled cities in world builder and rebuilding them, I found no way to fix this.

    There is no way at all to keep the "colonies" (separated by three or four ocean squares, yeah!) content. None at all. The revolt-o-meter rises all the time, bribes really do nothing beyond a couple of turns and you have constant revolts. The situation is aggravated by "financial trouble". Not sure what the trouble is, running a surplus of a 100 gold per turn and with 5000 gold in the bank. Basically, you can just as well give up on anything but your small initial island. Which will bore you to death, as everything has been done there. Period.

    Is there a way to disable that blooming "Revolution" module or is there a place to download an older version of AnD that is a little bit more casual player friendly? I get it, my interests are not those of the mod developers - and fair enough - but why, oh why must every new feature be shoved down my throat?
     
  18. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Simply click "No Revolutions" at start. That's what I almost always do (and have done for years).
     
  19. Tolni

    Tolni trust the pillars with your s e c r e t s

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    Furthermore, you can lower the RevIndex in the BUG options from 2.5 (default, for some reason) to 0.
     

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