DoW out of nothing from pleased Joao

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Knightly_, May 7, 2010.

  1. Knightly_

    Knightly_ Warlord

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    Hi all,
    i am currently playing an emperor fractal everything random game. I was on an island with Joao. Actually its 700 AD and suddenly Joao declared on me out of nothing. He was pleased since 40 turns and i am absolutely sure i never saw the BUG red fist indicating that he was planning a war. He requested ivory and asthetics some time ago which i both gave him. He even adopted my religion (taoism) before he DoWed on me (but never reached friendly status). So my question is am i missing some point when an AI is able to declare war ?

    Btw Joao never wanted to trade a technology (except monarchy which allows his favorite civic) away with the reason "we just dont want to trade away this technology yet". Maybe thats ok for modern techs but its just silly that he wont trade away archery and sailing this late because he just knows me.

    greetings Knightly_
     
  2. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    You can't check for war-mode via BUG in semi-isolation, you have to take units and check for SoDs in the enemy territory. BUG mode checks for the 'We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now' message when you hover over another leader in the trade screen... since no other leader is there, you can't see the war preparation.

    Joao started planning the war before he was Pleased with you. Pleased status only means he can't consider starting a war... an already planned one will go through.

    Civs don't trade techs in semi-isolation except for a few ones, namely Monarchy. It's hard-coded so that they don't trade their monopoly which in semi-isolation, is every tech.
     
  3. Knightly_

    Knightly_ Warlord

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    Things brings light into this situation :). Thx for the explanation
     
  4. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    There's nothing hard-coded about monopoly hoarding, it's actually quite convoluted. Without going to specifics, in semi-isolation you won't get monopoly whine on techs that

    1) Don't enable any military units AND
    2) Don't enable any non-religious buildings AND
    3) Don't enable any unbuilt wonders AND
    4) Don't enable any unbuilt projects AND
    5) Don't enable any SEA_EXPLORATION units pre-circumnavigation

    Monarchy and Alphabet are the most common ones that meet those criteria, but most religious techs fit the bill as well after the wonders they enable are built.
     
  5. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Well you could consider iTechTradeKnownPercent as hard-coded :)
     
  6. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    And even that is 0% for Mansa, meaning he will never monopoly whine about anything ;)
     
  7. mechaerik

    mechaerik Tuturuu!

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    Some leaders will declare war at pleased. There's a chart somewhere showing their disposition to declare at certain attitudes, or you could check the XML.
     
  8. Whiskey_Lord

    Whiskey_Lord Deity

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    ^^ This. You really have to know the leader personalities. Joao happens to be one of the most obnoxious neighbors you can have. In my current game with Tokugawa, Joao was please with me yet was repeatedly poisoning my waters until I decided to deal with the situation the best way that Tokugawa can.
     
  9. Mozzington

    Mozzington Prince

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    Joao, he's a w****r.

    He does it every time.

    Every time I meet him in my games I quickly decide he needs killing off, a fast.
     
  10. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    He is one of those who you know that as long as he's alive, he's a problem. I don't think he has a high unitprob and doesn't have an military UU, so killing him off is a very good solution. Besides, his land looks better in my color.
     
  11. Jon the Bastard

    Jon the Bastard Warlord

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    You know, I feel for you... I really do. Joao II just did that to me on a game I was playing too. I was Ghandi sharing an island with Joao II, founded Hinduism, converted Joao II, gave him Monarchy because he asked nicely for it and then the b@st@rd DoW-ed me too. That was eighty turns into the game... ridiculous. But, I think with Joao II you have to attribute what he did to you and I to his traits - EXPANSIVE and IMPERIALISTIC. If you are playing as a civ whose border's pop fast, like I was with Ghandi, then those traits are going to kick in and he is going to move in on you to stop you from gaining anymore land. He doesn't like it when he is suffocated by cultural borders... he likes to get big really fast (yeah, I know, that's what she said). Just chalk it up as one of those BS type situations and put him on your next game so that you can give him a little payback for being such a butthole.
     
  12. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    It's pretty funny to see people ranting about Joao... sure he expands a lot and is always begging, but he's also one of the easiest neighbors to please with HR as favorite civic. He usually ends up backwards early on from over-expanding and doesn't overbuild troops which makes him an easy target.
     
  13. Mozzington

    Mozzington Prince

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    I do actually feel a passionate hate for this guy in a computer game. :D
     
  14. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    ONLY if you can get to him early, though :p. The growth flavor, if unchecked, is the AI's strongest. Joao is one of the better late game tech AIs in the game.
     
  15. Isikien

    Isikien WHOA

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    Hot damn, I said the exact same thing in another thread. Well, not specifically about favourite civics but I still find it funny when everyone bashes on him

    He's so very easy to please. Give in to an early demand and he'll worship the ground you walk on. He's a middling leader, one that never becomes a major player. He's just huge and docile.

    You want problem leaders? Zara Yacob, now that guy is a git. Enjoy getting swamped in a 1000 years worth of culture if you weren't intending on invading him despite him being next door. Oh, by the way, if you're going to wage a late war on him, you have to understand, he probably has a Justice League of other AI mooks, Defensive Pacts that stretch incomprehensibly out for miles and a tech lead that you will never measure up to.
     
  16. Jon the Bastard

    Jon the Bastard Warlord

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    Truer words have never been spoken.
     
  17. cherrysnowdrop

    cherrysnowdrop Chieftain

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    Gahh, Joao just annoys me. Could have something to do with his air of greatness, I seriously wonder what's going on under his fingernails. :mischief: I guess he's easy to please, but somehow he's always begging for something and really ticking me off.

    I hate Zara Yaqob too, he always is the best player in any game. The only thing I like about him is how easy he's to get to Pleased. At Noble he's pleased with the years of peace +1.
     
  18. bakshi

    bakshi Prince

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    DoW is never out of nowhere. You should always have a couple of scouts running around keeping tabs on your enemies and friends. You see someone building an army beg 1 gold off them for a 10 turn peace treaty to build up your own army. Or bribe a friend to attack them.
     
  19. mechaerik

    mechaerik Tuturuu!

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    If someone asks him to declare, it could be considered out of nowhere.
     

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