Down on the Farm: Team Histographic #1
- Thread starter Elear
- Start date
Take a look at this new dot map. I'm deliberating how to place new cities here.
On the NE coast, either purple dot OR white + black dots.
It seems like a big gap in the NW, I know, yet all those BGs and forests are really tempting to work around. If it's a bit too much, we sacrifice the one forest and move the dark blue dot 1SE.
We can also move orange dot 1S or SW if you think it's okay not to settle on a hill.
On the NE coast, either purple dot OR white + black dots.
It seems like a big gap in the NW, I know, yet all those BGs and forests are really tempting to work around. If it's a bit too much, we sacrifice the one forest and move the dark blue dot 1SE.
We can also move orange dot 1S or SW if you think it's okay not to settle on a hill.
Attachments
I say purple and blue as keepers. We might need orange as sort of a camp for borders or something there. We can get some workers or artillery from there I guess until later. I also forgot that we can now start on courthouses for any spots we'll want them in. Actually, orange might net some sea squares eventually. I don't feel picky here.
Fair enough.
We'll be expanding far beyond orange, though, I quite imagine. Russia and Germany are far away.
I tried to do a much more thorough micromanaging job this time around.
1525 BC (0) - Decide to go for Philosophy in 5. I see
IBT: Persia completes the Pyramids.
1500 BC (1) - Persia now has Map Making.
Philosophy in 4, and no way they will get it in 4 as well. We're in good shape.
Worker #2 1N.
Workers #4 and #6 3N.
Worker #7 starts mine.
Worker #8 starts mine.
Luxuries -> 30%.
IBT: Germans building Oracle. Russians building Oracle, Temple of Artemis.
1475 BC (2) - 001: Cultural influence expands, filling some gaps.
Germany now also has Polytheism. We can't quite buy Map Making from Xerves; Code of Laws + our 43 gold is only "close".
003: Settler -> Courthouse.
Settle 013.
Worker #2 starts road.
Workers #4 and 6 move to E of 006.
Worker #5 finishes road, move to E of 013.
1450 BC (3) - 001: Settler -> Settler.
002: Settler -> Settler.
006: Worker (#9) -> Courthouse.
Worker #1 starts road.
Workers #4 and #6 start and finish road.
Worker #5 starts road.
Worker #9 -> forest 2NE of 006.
Since several cities just got smaller, I make a scientist in 008 (makes no difference other than slowing growth by 1 turn) to get Philosophy back to 2 turns.
IBT: Germans complete the Oracle. Persia is building the ToA and Lighthouse.
1425 BC (4) - Russia has a worker for sale. We're hoping for Mathematics, so I pass it up since it will take Writing to buy it.
Worker #2 finishes road, moves 1E.
Worker #3 finishes mine, begins road.
Workers #4 and #6 1N -> forest.
Worker #9 begins chop.
1400 BC (5) - We get Philosophy. No SGL. I choose Republic. SGL.
This is becoming a trend for me; I think it's the third game this month I got a Republic slingshot SGL on either Philosophy or Republic.
In any case, we obviously can't get the Pyramids anymore so I assume we will save it for...something.
I'm inclined to say Leonardo's Workshop to help us with unit upgrades, or if not that, the Hanging Gardens or Bach's, both decent happiness wonders. We may also be able to get the Lighthouse or Artemis, though only Lighthouse holds any appeal whatsoever to me.
It still remains the case that no one has Mathematics. I set research on Literature and turn science down to minimum. Turn luxuries from 30% to 40%. We are now at +23 GPT (30 percent luxuries are +25 GPT so 40 percent seemed good). However, this won't really matter as we're about to revolt. I vaguely think at this point that we should obtain Mathematics somehow from whoever researches it and then max on Currency.
There's no point withholding Code of Laws or Philosophy from Persia anymore, since they'll only end up researching them. It would be foolish to hope Persia gets Mathematics as well. I get everything I can, but elect Warrior Code over Iron Working or Polytheism since Warrior Code allows me to see who has HBR. And everyone does has HBR.
We are now down HBR, IW, Polytheism versus all AI
Germany & Russia: UP Writing, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making
Persia: UP The Republic
Revolt to Anarchy.
We draw a punishing 8 turn anarchy that is effectively a 7 turn one since I revolted in the IBT, apparently (oops, if I had thought that through for two seconds, I wouldn't have traded in the IBT).
I MM all the cities so that there are 0 scientists altogether to maximize growth. Literature is "-- turns" but I do not think at all that we will pursue Literature so I don't care what it is right now.
I also fix three disorders that popped up from switching into Anarchy during the IBT.
Worker #2 starts road.
Workers #4 and 6 start chopping.
Worker #5 starts mine.
Worker #7 -> grassland 1W of 006.
Worker #8 starts road.
I fortify Ah Cacao, our SGL, in 001.
1375 BC (6) - Republic in 6 turns.
All disorders resolved.
Found 014, start on worker.
I actually delay building a city to prevent an untimely chop intended for 006.
I think once we're out of Anarchy, we want to switch one, if not two, of the west coast Temples to Galleys. I am not quite sure where Persia is yet, but I suspect a decent distance from the "Horse Peninsula". We may actually be able to snag both the horses & gems, as well as a good few fertile cities on this peninsula if we have a pair of galleys and continue to run our settler pumps, even though I realize we will want to grow our cities at the same time. The conflict of interest between expansion and infrastructure is my only issue with a pre-QSC Republic slingshot; it makes it very difficult to decide what to do.
1350 BC (7) - Republic in 5 turns.
Chop finishes next to 006, contributing to Courthouse there. Reveals river BG.
Found 015 and 016, start on workers. We will need these post-Anarchy. At the moment we can't exactly get more workers, but 16 cities / 9 workers ratio is very bad. Luckily we will have a little time to catch up with Workers since most of our initial area is now filled and it will take a few turns to get to an appropriate point to continue making new cities to the north and also on the peninsula across the western channel. Truly though, to continue making meaningful improvements such as irrigation for Republic and improving our road network, we will need at least twice as many workers. 008 will still take awhile to get online as a worker pump, so 001 and 002 are going to have to work hard to find time for workers, as well as most any new city that we build.
I wanted to finish the Settlers in 001 and 002 pre-Anarchy rather than build more workers, though I suppose in hindsight one of those would have been better off as a worker, since I can at least use a worker a little bit during Anarchy. I won't lose sleep over it...(though I will lose sleep over how late I'm playing this turnset
) Especially since a single worker can do so little during Anarchy, even as an Industrious civilization, I think the difference is minimal.
1325 BC (8) - Republic in 4 turns.
Worker #3 -> river grassland 1SW of 001.
Workers #4, #6, #9 start road.
Continue to MM to prevent riots and maintain some growth.
1300 BC (9) - Republic in 3 turns.
Our Writing for Mathematics gambit does not pay off. Germany now has Writing and will undoubtedly trade it to Russia next turn. Therefore, I trade for the little I can get:
I don't think it was a bad idea but ...
Life moves on. We may end up buying Mathematics off of Persia at some point, here.
I continue to trade:
Unbelievably, Map Making @ 3rd was not enough to buy Polytheism @ 3rd, so I had to add in Philosophy as well.
Off-hand, I really wonder whether I made the right trades but this seems fairly standard to me. Get the techs you can, don't withhold anything purposely. We'll gift Germany + Russia into the MA at some point, regardless.
Worker #3 starts irrigation.
Worker #9 1N -> forest game 1NW of 015.
1275 BC (10) - Republic in 2 turns.
Workers #4 and #6 1N -> forest game 1NW of 015.
Decide to switch 015 from Worker to Galley so we can have an east coast galley as well, as needed. Chose Galley over Harbor, since I doubt the Harbor will do us anything until we have more sea lanes explored. In particular, there is nothing close to a sea route to Persia. I'm hoping we don't need Astronomy.
Curragh #3, going up the west coast of our island, finds a Babylonian bowman exploring. Babylon is about as large as any of the other civilizations, but just as advanced as Persia, that is, only down The Republic. Since neither Russia nor Germany has Code of Laws, either they know Persia somehow and obtained technologies from them, or they self-researched a number of technologies -- the latter seems impossible to me -- I tend to think that it's more likely they know Persia because I just can't fathom how else this is possible.
My exploring warrior also spots Babylonian borders perhaps 10N,2NW from 014. It seems that our borders may end up clashing with Babylon before Russia. There is definitely far more room to expand by sailing and establishing colonies than by trying to push north, though I do think we should try to put a few cities up north just to claim a bit more land. Alternatively, we could leave the north alone entirely and just focus on sending Settlers to the landmasses to our east/west (though these may end up being the same island, who knows?)
Curragh #2 finds spices along the opposite coast to the east.
Thus concludes a long log and an interesting turnset. What do you think? Where will we go from here? What could have I done better?
I'm very tired right now, but my main thought is to not get too ahead of yourself with infrastructure. We have a lot of work to do still on getting more workers and putting in the proper irrigation, and especially continuing to grow at a fast pace with all this room in every direction to grow. Certainly we need to move towards a fully functioning Republic state, but we also have huge opportunities to gain land. Don't give up our settler pumps too readily to focus on other things, because we still need them.
Our civilization:
1525 BC (0) - Decide to go for Philosophy in 5. I see
IBT: Persia completes the Pyramids.
1500 BC (1) - Persia now has Map Making.
Philosophy in 4, and no way they will get it in 4 as well. We're in good shape. Worker #2 1N.
Workers #4 and #6 3N.
Worker #7 starts mine.
Worker #8 starts mine.
Luxuries -> 30%.
IBT: Germans building Oracle. Russians building Oracle, Temple of Artemis.
1475 BC (2) - 001: Cultural influence expands, filling some gaps.
Germany now also has Polytheism. We can't quite buy Map Making from Xerves; Code of Laws + our 43 gold is only "close".
003: Settler -> Courthouse.
Settle 013.
Worker #2 starts road.
Workers #4 and 6 move to E of 006.
Worker #5 finishes road, move to E of 013.
1450 BC (3) - 001: Settler -> Settler.
002: Settler -> Settler.
006: Worker (#9) -> Courthouse.
Worker #1 starts road.
Workers #4 and #6 start and finish road.
Worker #5 starts road.
Worker #9 -> forest 2NE of 006.
Since several cities just got smaller, I make a scientist in 008 (makes no difference other than slowing growth by 1 turn) to get Philosophy back to 2 turns.
IBT: Germans complete the Oracle. Persia is building the ToA and Lighthouse.
1425 BC (4) - Russia has a worker for sale. We're hoping for Mathematics, so I pass it up since it will take Writing to buy it.
Worker #2 finishes road, moves 1E.
Worker #3 finishes mine, begins road.
Workers #4 and #6 1N -> forest.
Worker #9 begins chop.
1400 BC (5) - We get Philosophy. No SGL. I choose Republic. SGL.
This is becoming a trend for me; I think it's the third game this month I got a Republic slingshot SGL on either Philosophy or Republic.
In any case, we obviously can't get the Pyramids anymore so I assume we will save it for...something.
I'm inclined to say Leonardo's Workshop to help us with unit upgrades, or if not that, the Hanging Gardens or Bach's, both decent happiness wonders. We may also be able to get the Lighthouse or Artemis, though only Lighthouse holds any appeal whatsoever to me. It still remains the case that no one has Mathematics. I set research on Literature and turn science down to minimum. Turn luxuries from 30% to 40%. We are now at +23 GPT (30 percent luxuries are +25 GPT so 40 percent seemed good). However, this won't really matter as we're about to revolt. I vaguely think at this point that we should obtain Mathematics somehow from whoever researches it and then max on Currency.
There's no point withholding Code of Laws or Philosophy from Persia anymore, since they'll only end up researching them. It would be foolish to hope Persia gets Mathematics as well. I get everything I can, but elect Warrior Code over Iron Working or Polytheism since Warrior Code allows me to see who has HBR. And everyone does has HBR.
We are now down HBR, IW, Polytheism versus all AI
Germany & Russia: UP Writing, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making
Persia: UP The Republic
Revolt to Anarchy.
We draw a punishing 8 turn anarchy that is effectively a 7 turn one since I revolted in the IBT, apparently (oops, if I had thought that through for two seconds, I wouldn't have traded in the IBT).
I MM all the cities so that there are 0 scientists altogether to maximize growth. Literature is "-- turns" but I do not think at all that we will pursue Literature so I don't care what it is right now.
I also fix three disorders that popped up from switching into Anarchy during the IBT.
Worker #2 starts road.
Workers #4 and 6 start chopping.
Worker #5 starts mine.
Worker #7 -> grassland 1W of 006.
Worker #8 starts road.
I fortify Ah Cacao, our SGL, in 001.
1375 BC (6) - Republic in 6 turns.
All disorders resolved.
Found 014, start on worker.
I actually delay building a city to prevent an untimely chop intended for 006.
I think once we're out of Anarchy, we want to switch one, if not two, of the west coast Temples to Galleys. I am not quite sure where Persia is yet, but I suspect a decent distance from the "Horse Peninsula". We may actually be able to snag both the horses & gems, as well as a good few fertile cities on this peninsula if we have a pair of galleys and continue to run our settler pumps, even though I realize we will want to grow our cities at the same time. The conflict of interest between expansion and infrastructure is my only issue with a pre-QSC Republic slingshot; it makes it very difficult to decide what to do.
1350 BC (7) - Republic in 5 turns.
Chop finishes next to 006, contributing to Courthouse there. Reveals river BG.
Found 015 and 016, start on workers. We will need these post-Anarchy. At the moment we can't exactly get more workers, but 16 cities / 9 workers ratio is very bad. Luckily we will have a little time to catch up with Workers since most of our initial area is now filled and it will take a few turns to get to an appropriate point to continue making new cities to the north and also on the peninsula across the western channel. Truly though, to continue making meaningful improvements such as irrigation for Republic and improving our road network, we will need at least twice as many workers. 008 will still take awhile to get online as a worker pump, so 001 and 002 are going to have to work hard to find time for workers, as well as most any new city that we build.
I wanted to finish the Settlers in 001 and 002 pre-Anarchy rather than build more workers, though I suppose in hindsight one of those would have been better off as a worker, since I can at least use a worker a little bit during Anarchy. I won't lose sleep over it...(though I will lose sleep over how late I'm playing this turnset
) Especially since a single worker can do so little during Anarchy, even as an Industrious civilization, I think the difference is minimal.1325 BC (8) - Republic in 4 turns.
Worker #3 -> river grassland 1SW of 001.
Workers #4, #6, #9 start road.
Continue to MM to prevent riots and maintain some growth.
1300 BC (9) - Republic in 3 turns.
Our Writing for Mathematics gambit does not pay off. Germany now has Writing and will undoubtedly trade it to Russia next turn. Therefore, I trade for the little I can get:
I don't think it was a bad idea but ...
Life moves on. We may end up buying Mathematics off of Persia at some point, here.I continue to trade:
Unbelievably, Map Making @ 3rd was not enough to buy Polytheism @ 3rd, so I had to add in Philosophy as well.
Off-hand, I really wonder whether I made the right trades but this seems fairly standard to me. Get the techs you can, don't withhold anything purposely. We'll gift Germany + Russia into the MA at some point, regardless.
Worker #3 starts irrigation.
Worker #9 1N -> forest game 1NW of 015.
1275 BC (10) - Republic in 2 turns.
Workers #4 and #6 1N -> forest game 1NW of 015.
Decide to switch 015 from Worker to Galley so we can have an east coast galley as well, as needed. Chose Galley over Harbor, since I doubt the Harbor will do us anything until we have more sea lanes explored. In particular, there is nothing close to a sea route to Persia. I'm hoping we don't need Astronomy.
Curragh #3, going up the west coast of our island, finds a Babylonian bowman exploring. Babylon is about as large as any of the other civilizations, but just as advanced as Persia, that is, only down The Republic. Since neither Russia nor Germany has Code of Laws, either they know Persia somehow and obtained technologies from them, or they self-researched a number of technologies -- the latter seems impossible to me -- I tend to think that it's more likely they know Persia because I just can't fathom how else this is possible.
My exploring warrior also spots Babylonian borders perhaps 10N,2NW from 014. It seems that our borders may end up clashing with Babylon before Russia. There is definitely far more room to expand by sailing and establishing colonies than by trying to push north, though I do think we should try to put a few cities up north just to claim a bit more land. Alternatively, we could leave the north alone entirely and just focus on sending Settlers to the landmasses to our east/west (though these may end up being the same island, who knows?)
Curragh #2 finds spices along the opposite coast to the east.
Thus concludes a long log and an interesting turnset. What do you think? Where will we go from here? What could have I done better?
I'm very tired right now, but my main thought is to not get too ahead of yourself with infrastructure. We have a lot of work to do still on getting more workers and putting in the proper irrigation, and especially continuing to grow at a fast pace with all this room in every direction to grow. Certainly we need to move towards a fully functioning Republic state, but we also have huge opportunities to gain land. Don't give up our settler pumps too readily to focus on other things, because we still need them.
Our civilization:
Perhaps this is true but I wasn't about to try it. Thanks for letting me know.
Save is attached to this post, forgot it last night.
Persia lies to the West where I spotted the horses. At least I recall seeing a Persian warrior there. I might have waited on either Philosophy or Code of Laws with Persia so they don't accidentally stumble to the The Republic before we learn Currency. That seems to happen in some of my 7 opponent pangea attempts. I don't see a need for a courthouse in 003. It's a first ring city. Maybe in 006, but it's close also, so maybe not. I'll make those horse an A1 priority. I actually read your "will post soon" message late last night... but not as late you finished your write-up. I kind of feel inclined to say that we should get started on a little research on Maths to cheapen it for trading.
Ah Cacao-I managed to see we had gotten him *before* I saw Persia had completed the Pyramids. Oh well. Honestly, I don't have too much of a clue here... so...
The Temple of Artemis-We might keep some/more towns with this thing around. We also wouldn't need temples in our coastal cities. Contenedeness will also come as easier to manage for a while... right around when we have few to no luxuries and few to no markets... so getting citizens to happy becomes easier.
The Hanging Gardens-The three unhappy citizens becoming content in it's host city makes it on par with the Museum of Mausollos in one respect. The one extra conent citizen produces the same effect as the Temple of Artemis. It does last to Steam Power instead of Education, but ultimately it seems almost equivalent to the Temple of Artemis overall. Especially if we think we could manage to capture the Great Library and delay Education for a while (possibly risky on an archipelago map).
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-The two extra content citizens definitely have their benefits. We'll have to keep pace/buy a turn or two after in tech if we pursue this. We'll get this eventually, although getting it sooner might come as better than later. No capturing the Great Library in such a case.
Smith's-Same potential problems as Bach's. We'll want it eventually somewhere via capture if we don't SGL like Bach's also.
The Great Library-We could put this in a rather useless spot (either some corrupt spot to the north beyond the chokepoint or in the tundra, I would guess), then give it away pre-Education, and then capture it back. No one said we have to play this game elegentally now, did they?
Sun Tzu's-Everywhere barracks would slash our costs down and speed up our military expansion a bit since we don't need 40 shields for a barracks. Healing would work out much easier on our home continent also.
Leo's-Believe it or not I've never used a disconnect/reconect strategy so far. But, what's the ratio here? Usually, it's 30 gold/10 shields, right? So, 15 gold/10 shields if we take this one. Effectively that would mean it would cost us 60 gold (instead of 120 gold) to upgrade a horseman to a knight and 75 gold (instead of 150 gold) to upgrade a horseman to a cavalry unit. So, that's 60 gold for 40 shields or 75 gold for 50 shields effectively.
The Great Lighthouse-Faster galleys would speed up our expansion possibly. I don't know 60% archipelago maps, but if there's some funny island somewhere, we might colonize it earlier because of this.
I think most players would pick Leo's. The Great Library doesn't seem like a big deal, since we can capture it elsewhere if we feel comfortable enough to only buy tech along the Military Tradition path for a while. Smith's and Bach's seem kind of late to me. The Lighthouse seems nice, but we'll fight our early wars on land, so I don't think faster, seafaring galleys makes for all that big of a deal. I like Leo's, but I don't know if we'll quite have the cash to do that... and we'll need workers other places for development and growth really, other than a bunch parked on a mountain pillaging and then roading, in my opinion. Sun Tzu's has appeal to me, since it would get our units out faster and cheapen costs. Though, 10 cities with barracks seems like plenty on this sort of map (maybe more), so that's only 10-20 gold per turn saved... which doesn't seem like too big of a deal.
I favor the Temple of Artemis. We won't need 60 shields in our early-to-mid coastal towns ever picking up expansion, we'll have a little more culture so we might manage to keep early captured towns instead of razing and needing settlers from more core areas, and it's an earlier tourist attraction meaning a little more medieval commerce (and later on also), and less commerce for the AIs. It also means that each of these scientific tribes will actually put 36 shields towards temples early on... so they'll end up slightly weaker military-wise. We'll also raise score earlier through border expansions this way. And we have what... 5 non-coastal cities so far?
We need to decide which wonder before I play.
Ah Cacao-I managed to see we had gotten him *before* I saw Persia had completed the Pyramids. Oh well. Honestly, I don't have too much of a clue here... so...
The Temple of Artemis-We might keep some/more towns with this thing around. We also wouldn't need temples in our coastal cities. Contenedeness will also come as easier to manage for a while... right around when we have few to no luxuries and few to no markets... so getting citizens to happy becomes easier.
The Hanging Gardens-The three unhappy citizens becoming content in it's host city makes it on par with the Museum of Mausollos in one respect. The one extra conent citizen produces the same effect as the Temple of Artemis. It does last to Steam Power instead of Education, but ultimately it seems almost equivalent to the Temple of Artemis overall. Especially if we think we could manage to capture the Great Library and delay Education for a while (possibly risky on an archipelago map).
J. S. Bach's Cathedral-The two extra content citizens definitely have their benefits. We'll have to keep pace/buy a turn or two after in tech if we pursue this. We'll get this eventually, although getting it sooner might come as better than later. No capturing the Great Library in such a case.
Smith's-Same potential problems as Bach's. We'll want it eventually somewhere via capture if we don't SGL like Bach's also.
The Great Library-We could put this in a rather useless spot (either some corrupt spot to the north beyond the chokepoint or in the tundra, I would guess), then give it away pre-Education, and then capture it back. No one said we have to play this game elegentally now, did they?
Sun Tzu's-Everywhere barracks would slash our costs down and speed up our military expansion a bit since we don't need 40 shields for a barracks. Healing would work out much easier on our home continent also.
Leo's-Believe it or not I've never used a disconnect/reconect strategy so far. But, what's the ratio here? Usually, it's 30 gold/10 shields, right? So, 15 gold/10 shields if we take this one. Effectively that would mean it would cost us 60 gold (instead of 120 gold) to upgrade a horseman to a knight and 75 gold (instead of 150 gold) to upgrade a horseman to a cavalry unit. So, that's 60 gold for 40 shields or 75 gold for 50 shields effectively.
The Great Lighthouse-Faster galleys would speed up our expansion possibly. I don't know 60% archipelago maps, but if there's some funny island somewhere, we might colonize it earlier because of this.
I think most players would pick Leo's. The Great Library doesn't seem like a big deal, since we can capture it elsewhere if we feel comfortable enough to only buy tech along the Military Tradition path for a while. Smith's and Bach's seem kind of late to me. The Lighthouse seems nice, but we'll fight our early wars on land, so I don't think faster, seafaring galleys makes for all that big of a deal. I like Leo's, but I don't know if we'll quite have the cash to do that... and we'll need workers other places for development and growth really, other than a bunch parked on a mountain pillaging and then roading, in my opinion. Sun Tzu's has appeal to me, since it would get our units out faster and cheapen costs. Though, 10 cities with barracks seems like plenty on this sort of map (maybe more), so that's only 10-20 gold per turn saved... which doesn't seem like too big of a deal.
I favor the Temple of Artemis. We won't need 60 shields in our early-to-mid coastal towns ever picking up expansion, we'll have a little more culture so we might manage to keep early captured towns instead of razing and needing settlers from more core areas, and it's an earlier tourist attraction meaning a little more medieval commerce (and later on also), and less commerce for the AIs. It also means that each of these scientific tribes will actually put 36 shields towards temples early on... so they'll end up slightly weaker military-wise. We'll also raise score earlier through border expansions this way. And we have what... 5 non-coastal cities so far?
We need to decide which wonder before I play.
Persia is definitely to the west, but not close to the horses. They may even be a little north west. I haven't found their borders yet.
I agree that Bach and Smith's are too late.
Hanging Gardens is decent but not extremely good. Same with Lighthouse.
Great Library is neat but I doubt we NEED it.
Sun Tzu's mainly has the benefit of allowing us to conquest slightly faster, due to healing, and this may be very true if all AIs are on the same, thin, snaky continent.
I wonder if we really will have the gold or not to perform a Horseman -> Knight upgrade. I think it's plausible but it's difficult to know. We'll probably be buying most techs at 3rd from Persia and Babylon.
Just for fun, let's go for the Temple of Artemis.
I did post the save.
I agree that Bach and Smith's are too late.
Hanging Gardens is decent but not extremely good. Same with Lighthouse.
Great Library is neat but I doubt we NEED it.
Sun Tzu's mainly has the benefit of allowing us to conquest slightly faster, due to healing, and this may be very true if all AIs are on the same, thin, snaky continent.
I wonder if we really will have the gold or not to perform a Horseman -> Knight upgrade. I think it's plausible but it's difficult to know. We'll probably be buying most techs at 3rd from Persia and Babylon.
Just for fun, let's go for the Temple of Artemis.
I did post the save.
Change it then, I suppose you're right.
You can also make the choice on what to do: research Mathematics or not.
I thought about this but I really see no reason for Persia (or Babylon, consequentially) to waste their time researching them when they could be getting us Mathematics!
Pre-turn MM citizens for scientists anywhere we absolutely need a specialist. Otherwise growth, except for 004, 001, 002, and 008 which have entertainers (fewer specialists that wya). I consider the disorder on, then off for a turn, but we'll get a little more points this way. The scientists give us a little less happiness, but it knocks Maths down to 27 turns. See that 014 has no shields invested into anything, so move Ah Cacao there and SGL rush the Temple of Artemis.
1-1250 BC 014 ToA-Courthouse. Russians complete Museum of Mausollos. Move things around (I made an execution error with a curragh and reloaded... we're not submitting this to anyone, and it wasn't a strategic error), MM cities so we have more growth now. Since the core cities now have scientists instead of tax collectors, Maths stays at 27 turns.
2-1225 BC We become a Republic and Persia completes The Great Lighthouse. We become a Republic. After MMing, lux. goes to 20%, science to 80%. We can get Maths in 5 turns if no one else beats us there (Monarchy still hasn't shown up). 001 has 8 shields in the box, so it gets a full 10 shields this turn, as 10+12+8=30. Actually, scratch that. I have 003 use one of those BGs and disband one of those warriors. Only one unit over the unit support limit now. 006 might not need a courthouse, but that's a decent market pre-build. See that Babylon and Russia have cities close to each other. We can make them fight with each other once we have some military.
3-1200 BC Disband warrior in 002 to rush in settler. Lux. to 30%. Maths still reads 4 turns. Spot Persia warrior/settler pair next to Babylonian bowman/settler pair. So, we probably all lie on the same landmass so far at least. Buy galley in 005 since we have a settler coming out next turn. Move warrior from 001 to the chokepoint just in case.
4-1175 BC 001 settler-settler. 005 galley-worker. 014s culture pops. Russia has a worker to which I say "oh well". We've got spices and incense on the eastern land. You probably already saw that. 011 might benefit from a courthouse, so it starts on one.
5-1150 BC 002 settler-worker. 007 worker-harbor. Disband warrior in 002 so we can get another settler out quickly. Spot gems on Germany's island. 016 swaps to a courthouse.
6-1125 BC No one has Maths yet and we'll have it in a single turn.
7-1100 BC The culture pops occure. 013 worker-courthouse. Germany and Persia learn Maths along with us. Use a scientist in 008 as it hits size 5. Found 017 dropping Currency drops from 10 to 9 turns. Land settler on top of horses.
8-1075 BC Russia creates what looks like a stack of doom for someone. 001 settler-settler. Germany has a worker for sale which I let go. 005 worker-harbor. Currency stays at 9 turns. Found 018 on top of the horses which starts on a harbor. Fortify warrior at the chokepoint. Currency drops to 8 turns after MMing (not scientists, but hey, I'll take it).
9-1050 BC Chop goes to 015 wasting some shields. Oh well. 015 galley-worker. Persia starts the Hanging Gardens and the Statue of Zeus. Russian stack heads south, so warrior comes back towards the chokepoint. 002 settler-settler (we want those luxes ASAP). I notice 018 has a temple, so that's on our landmass.
10-1025 BC Russian stack disperses. Looks like it had settlers there, I should have checked. Oh well. Germany has two workers for sale... oh well. Babylon and Russia still lack Maths. I thought about getting their treasury, but they might get Monarchy here soon enough, and maybe Maths+Code of Laws might net us Monarchy, which might make age turn-over trading easier. I just placed two settlers on galleys. One in the south to go for the gems near Persia (it might need defense, we will see). One in the north which can go onto the spices. The next settler from 002 should go for the incense. I don't know if I like the courthouse in 006, but we can use it as a pre-build on our first marketplace. We might also want markets prior to harbors in some of the coastal towns, but I don't feel too certain on that. We still have another gems source out to the east near Germany. I suggest shutting research off and raising the luxury slider up once we learn Currency. We may want to buy the last bit of the granary in 008 once we have Currency.
Here's the save:
1-1250 BC 014 ToA-Courthouse. Russians complete Museum of Mausollos. Move things around (I made an execution error with a curragh and reloaded... we're not submitting this to anyone, and it wasn't a strategic error), MM cities so we have more growth now. Since the core cities now have scientists instead of tax collectors, Maths stays at 27 turns.
2-1225 BC We become a Republic and Persia completes The Great Lighthouse. We become a Republic. After MMing, lux. goes to 20%, science to 80%. We can get Maths in 5 turns if no one else beats us there (Monarchy still hasn't shown up). 001 has 8 shields in the box, so it gets a full 10 shields this turn, as 10+12+8=30. Actually, scratch that. I have 003 use one of those BGs and disband one of those warriors. Only one unit over the unit support limit now. 006 might not need a courthouse, but that's a decent market pre-build. See that Babylon and Russia have cities close to each other. We can make them fight with each other once we have some military.
3-1200 BC Disband warrior in 002 to rush in settler. Lux. to 30%. Maths still reads 4 turns. Spot Persia warrior/settler pair next to Babylonian bowman/settler pair. So, we probably all lie on the same landmass so far at least. Buy galley in 005 since we have a settler coming out next turn. Move warrior from 001 to the chokepoint just in case.
4-1175 BC 001 settler-settler. 005 galley-worker. 014s culture pops. Russia has a worker to which I say "oh well". We've got spices and incense on the eastern land. You probably already saw that. 011 might benefit from a courthouse, so it starts on one.
5-1150 BC 002 settler-worker. 007 worker-harbor. Disband warrior in 002 so we can get another settler out quickly. Spot gems on Germany's island. 016 swaps to a courthouse.
6-1125 BC No one has Maths yet and we'll have it in a single turn.
7-1100 BC The culture pops occure. 013 worker-courthouse. Germany and Persia learn Maths along with us. Use a scientist in 008 as it hits size 5. Found 017 dropping Currency drops from 10 to 9 turns. Land settler on top of horses.
8-1075 BC Russia creates what looks like a stack of doom for someone. 001 settler-settler. Germany has a worker for sale which I let go. 005 worker-harbor. Currency stays at 9 turns. Found 018 on top of the horses which starts on a harbor. Fortify warrior at the chokepoint. Currency drops to 8 turns after MMing (not scientists, but hey, I'll take it).
9-1050 BC Chop goes to 015 wasting some shields. Oh well. 015 galley-worker. Persia starts the Hanging Gardens and the Statue of Zeus. Russian stack heads south, so warrior comes back towards the chokepoint. 002 settler-settler (we want those luxes ASAP). I notice 018 has a temple, so that's on our landmass.
10-1025 BC Russian stack disperses. Looks like it had settlers there, I should have checked. Oh well. Germany has two workers for sale... oh well. Babylon and Russia still lack Maths. I thought about getting their treasury, but they might get Monarchy here soon enough, and maybe Maths+Code of Laws might net us Monarchy, which might make age turn-over trading easier. I just placed two settlers on galleys. One in the south to go for the gems near Persia (it might need defense, we will see). One in the north which can go onto the spices. The next settler from 002 should go for the incense. I don't know if I like the courthouse in 006, but we can use it as a pre-build on our first marketplace. We might also want markets prior to harbors in some of the coastal towns, but I don't feel too certain on that. We still have another gems source out to the east near Germany. I suggest shutting research off and raising the luxury slider up once we learn Currency. We may want to buy the last bit of the granary in 008 once we have Currency.
Here's the save:
How do you want to manage the research of Currency? You have the tech rate at an unmanageable -10GPT for 6 turns with only 51 gold spare.
Is the idea to reduce the rate to avoid bankruptcy in the final 2 turns of research? If not, let me know.
Is the idea to reduce the rate to avoid bankruptcy in the final 2 turns of research? If not, let me know.
Can do on scouting.
I don't think loans are necessary at this point. I disbanded one curragh (soon a second -- both were unnecessary) and this is helping us financially.
P.S. - We can sell Mathematics to Babylon for 30 some gold + a worker. Good? I'll make a decision on my own if you don't respond.
Alright.
New question: I have Currency now (yes I'm playing like a snail here). I can trade it to Persia for Monarchy and a bit of cash, then trade Monarchy to Germany for over 100 gold. Alternatively, I can get Monarchy and cash from Persia then sell Currency around to the other civs. Or, I can withhold Currency for now and just wait for someone to research Construction. Or, I can buy Monarchy + a bit of gold from Persia and then sit on Currency and wait for Construction. Let me know what you prefer.
I'm very split between wanting to wait for Construction (we won't easily obtain Construction unless we save Currency to sell @ 1st price) and wanting to get Monarchy from Persia.
Bear in mind Monarchy is now known by two civs. It is not extremely valuable in the Middle ages anymore if we obtain it too.
New question: I have Currency now (yes I'm playing like a snail here). I can trade it to Persia for Monarchy and a bit of cash, then trade Monarchy to Germany for over 100 gold. Alternatively, I can get Monarchy and cash from Persia then sell Currency around to the other civs. Or, I can withhold Currency for now and just wait for someone to research Construction. Or, I can buy Monarchy + a bit of gold from Persia and then sit on Currency and wait for Construction. Let me know what you prefer.
I'm very split between wanting to wait for Construction (we won't easily obtain Construction unless we save Currency to sell @ 1st price) and wanting to get Monarchy from Persia.Bear in mind Monarchy is now known by two civs. It is not extremely valuable in the Middle ages anymore if we obtain it too.
