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[Monjis]

Excuse me, but I am playing with Cathay in the new World Map and I can't see the way to train magical units. I know that usually you train edgewizars and then promote them, but they don't appear as an option to be builds at cities.
Is it caused by a bug or there is another way to train them beacause of the elemental magic?

 

[Ahriman]

Elemental magic (which is what Cathay, Ind, Araby and Nippon will have access to) is not yet implemented.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

actually you should be able to research elemental magic. you need to build an elemental sanctum to build spellcasters, and need one of the 4 elemental techs to get access to the units. im still working on these units requirements, and you should note there are no implemented spells for elementalism as of yet.

 

[Ahriman]

how are dryads not supernatural i ask you? they should keep fear.

Dryads are supernatural creatures, but don't have a supernatural fear effect - they're just scary because they're nasty monsters that kill people.

In contrast, something like a wraith or weird spiritual creature actually has a supernatural fear effect; they make units afraid by their mere presence. Such units are great against normal troops, but are less powerful against units that aren't afraid of them, either because they are exceptionally courageous, or because they are mindless and so can't be made afraid. A wraith just isn't as effective against a mechanical construct as it is against a normal human.

Dryads strength comes from the fact that they rip you apart; there is no reason why they should be less powerful against units that are particularly courageous. And at the end of the day, thats all the fear effect does; it makes units strong vs other units that are not immune to fear, and weaker against units that are immune.

Plus, the logic you use to give the Dryad fear could equally be used for many, many other units, and the fear effect becomes boring if it is too commonplace.

Wild Riders shouldn't have terror either. Terror should be limited to a very, very small group of units - demon princes, dragons and the like. As it stands, with a fear unit and a terror unit you can give any stack -50% strength - vs all of your units! This lets you kill anything in your path with ease.

yeh it was an experiment on something you helped suggest (remember?

I'm pretty sure I never suggested implementing it as a spell. What I suggested was that the cause fear effect give a strength bonus in combat, except against units immune to fear, and that the fear ability should be turned into a meaningless placeholder until then.

 

[Ahriman]

Once again the AI is back to spamming useless forts everywhere - no idea why. I'm sorely tempted to just remove them entirely.... they seem to hurt the AI more than they help.

See attached save.

"Build singing grove" worker icon is a pink square - probably a known issue?

Education and Literacy techs are probably too expensive now given their reduced importance. Once we finalize tech tree changes, many techs will need cost changes.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Once again the AI is back to spamming useless forts everywhere - no idea why. I'm sorely tempted to just remove them entirely.... they seem to hurt the AI more than they help.

Still?! this is one of those issues that just LOVES to show up time and time again... ive founda tag called 'tiles per goody' which i suspect changes the number of tiles alowed between the improvements. ive made it 3, ill see what happens now in my version. if nothing ill have to think of something else... the ai arnt building them for their tile yeilds anymore because there arent any...

Education and Literacy techs are probably too expensive now given their reduced importance. Once we finalize tech tree changes, many techs will need cost changes.

any suggestions?

 

[Ahriman]

Maybe 1800 beakers for literacy, 3500 for education? Dunno. These things will need lots of tweaking.

Are you planning to implement the "tactics" tech line for unit prereqs?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Are you planning to implement the "tactics" tech line for unit prereqs?

ill do that after we do the unit combat changes i think

 

[Arexack_heretic]

finally able to run:

i get, amongst many others, an error in cv.doTerrainTurn()
type error: 'int' cannot be called


effect fear is undefined. (known)
poss. linked to spellinterface: def effects()

also a lot 'string' errors, in line 0 or ? ,which i prob. caused myself.

edit: HAVE A NICE X-MAS !

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i get, amongst many others, an error in cv.doTerrainTurn()
type error: 'int' cannot be called

that could be an error caused by shifting sands with khemri. i think i dod something wrong there because there is no sign that the code works, though i never got any python errors... perhaps i havnt enabled them?

 

[Ahriman]

Bug: On the first turn and the start of every turn thereafter, I get the following nonfatal python error:
File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent
File "EvEventManager", line198, in handleEvent
File "CvEventManager", line 424, in onBeginGameTurn
File"CustomFunctions", line 326, in doCivTerrainTurn
TypeError: 'int' object is not callable.

Save attached.

 

[orlanth]

That looks like it might be from the new Shifting Sands stuff. try changing line 326 of CustomFunctions.py from

if iTerrain == iPlains() == True:

to -->

if iTerrain == iPlains :

 

[Arexack_heretic]

heh!
yes, that sure was an obvious piece of code mangling
... no space before the : though.

Any good python bugs I can squash for you from this civ-free laptop I have to resort to for now?
(please post relevant code, as I said: no civ here)

 

[Ahriman]

Despite the changes to the fear effect (which needs further adjustment) units are still "immobilized with fear" and unable to attack some dragon units (eg Kalanos the black or whatever his name is, the dragon created by event from under the sea).

 

[Arexack_heretic]

paralysis is ok, just not 100% of the time.

 

[orlanth]

I'm getting tons of python exceptions related to fear (practically every turn if a creature with fear is in-game):

file "CvSpellInterface", line 26, in effect
file "string", line 0, in ?
NameError: name 'effectFear' is not defined

CvSpellInterface line 26 is a call to eval(prom.getPyPerTurn()) , but I don't know what was changed that would make this call misfire.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

yes, I get those too. errors mentioning strings usually are typos in variable names ( the new name has no value, so is interpreted as an inmutable string: strings cannot be modified like integer values.)
I think the problem lies with the promotion fear python, which is evaluated each turn by the method that is reporting the error.

 

[Ahriman]

Yeah, the fear error happens every turn - the details are in my post #55 in this thread. It happens for Terror too.

paralysis is ok, just not 100% of the time.

Agreed. My design for fear terror would be:
Cause fear gives a 15% strength bonus in combat vs any units not immune to fear. (The bonus only happens in combat; so only the unit with the fear promotion ever gets the bonus)
Terror: Attack scatters units, and when defending, and unit not immune to fear has a flat 30% chance of being too scared to attack.

Fear and terror are limited to very small numbers of units; only those with actual supernatural fear abilities, not just anything that is big and nasty and can kill you (which is almost every unit).

The watchtower spam is making this current build unplayable beyond the early midgame. I have literally observed the AI building watchtowers over its mature cottages. They're replacing nearly every improvement with watchtowers once they can build them, and stagnating completely.
I strongly recommend we take these out; they don't add much, and they're destroying the AI's ability to put up a fight.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

I need to look into the code, but I have high hopes for implementing this without too much difficulty.

terror should be the fear of the few really terrifying units, while fear can be from many more units that are legendary, huge, decaying, etc.
fear will be infinitely less effective than terror (a small combat penalty and maybe a small chance of refusing to attack a stack with the unit in it.)

I think the current method is to have the fear-causing unit 'cast' a fear spell on all nearby units at the start of a turn.
I'd keep this part (for terror), but maybe expand the function to include attacking:
If the target plot contains a fear-causing unit, the attacking unit may refuse to attack and get the immobilized by fear promotion... which lasts a single turn.
(or just end unit-turn if that is possible)

terror affects units from a distance by sheer presence.
refusal to attack should use the same method, but have a higher chance than fear. The same method needs to be used, because fear and terror are linked: a unti with fear suffers only fear effects from terror and terror is not affected by anything. These conditions can be checked via promotions.
The method also needs to check for immunity from fear/terror. (I gather this functionality is already in)

Let's start a dedicated thread on fear/terror.

(edit: I did not mention combat effects, because these need not be considdered)

 

[orlanth]

sound effects (religion spread sounds etc) appear not to be working -> edit: false alarm

To solve the endless AI watchtower building I finally just disabled Build Watchtower as one of the Worker build commands in Civ4BuildInfos.xml; maybe it could be re-implemented as a spell castable by Workers at Mathematics.