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Dr kossin #11

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Welcome to Dr kossin #11, which stands for Daily Round.

    Yes, I will aim to get in a update every day - as long as I have the time (work, girlfriend, etc). I might skip a day here and there but I will compensate by playing an extra round here and there.
    Now I don't plan on very long updates, sometimes just 10 turns, and will stop at strategic times.

    That being said, I'm not a great player but I can manage at times. My goal is to improve and, if possible, help others improve as well. I couldn't beat Noble when I started reading this forum (could barely beat Warlord) and I am now in the process of getting comfortable on Immortal.

    That's where you come in. I need your ideas, your criticism and everything else you can throw at me - even if you can't beat Noble. Since I plan on an update everyday, there will be mistakes from my part and I might not always get the best advice going forward. That's life!

    You are also welcome to shadow this game, although I would prefer you post it in spoilers and no further than I have already played. You can still shadow the whole game and post it but it is important that no one uses that knowledge (land, AIs) to help me.

    Without further time wasting, let's go to the game.

    Dr kossin #11

    Round 1 Settling and Scouting
    Round 2 Could you spare these?
    Round 3 This is my island!
    Round 4 Towards Liberalism
    Round 5 To the Stars

    Game settings:
    Immortal
    Fractal (I've had a friend check that it is not isolated or semi-isolated)
    Normal Speed
    No Huts/Events
    BULL 1.0+BUG 4.2 in Custom Assets
    Everything else normal.

    The leader this time is Charlemagne! Often considered in the bottom of the leader chart for the human, he offers interesting gambits.


    +50% production to settlers, +100% Great General emergence, Free Drill I and City Garrison I to Archery and Gunpowder units, double build speed of walls and castles

    His UB: a Courthouse with an extra 25% reduction to maintenance


    His UU: a Pikeman with +100% against melee units


    We start with Hunting and Mysticism.


    It's really not a spectacular combo... religion first is a gamble and you basically need to research almost every worker tech there is.

    And the start:


    Here's what I think is in the fog:


    Where's the food? I'm guessing there's a cow in one of the fogged plains...

    I think we're a bit north of the jungle strip although I could be quite wrong here. I think sending the scout to the coast to see if there's any seafood there is as good a move as any possible...

    Otherwise... settle and place and perhaps go settler first! :D
     
  2. Monsterzuma

    Monsterzuma the sly one

    Joined:
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    I'd recommend getting as much of that coast scouted as possible at the first turn. Hope for some seafood, obviously. Probably scout NE, SE, and settler N, NW. Alternatively, scout to the west so you can at least hang on to the plains cow, wheat or sheep tile W W of the settler.
     
  3. Generic_Leader

    Generic_Leader Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2009
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    As a recently moved up noble and relatively new player, take what I say with a grain of salt, but...

    Thats a really bad start. I'd say that moving your settler to the coast (1N or 1NE if you don't want to lose a turn) would be worth it even if seafood doesn't show up, but obviously, if you get unlucky and lose a cow or something because of that, it'll look really bad.
     
  4. Berkobob

    Berkobob Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    can that grassland river tile be a strategic resource? if it is may be worth moving 1N to keep the 1H bonus and settle on turn 1?
     
  5. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Sorry for the pictures going down, it seems I'm eating a whole lot of bandwidth from Photobucket :D

    Maybe I should move to Imageshack... I think it's unlimited, anyone know?

    Anyway, the other pictures down will reset on January 3rd.
     
  6. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

    Joined:
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    3,226
    Settle in place of course. Sheep/wheat/cow to the east is your food, and if not you can do the freaky settler first build.
     
  7. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    Just settle in place, it will be fine... You know you want to! :)

    The 2 :hammers: tile and the option to farm a lot of the surrounding lands will not hold you down, even if this capitol turns out to be sub-par. I am just not a big fan of losing settler turns over gambling the presence of seafood.
     
  8. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Location:
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    Round 1

    I moved the scout towards the coast and was satisfied with what I saw, so I moved the settler.


    There was indeed wheat in the original BFC but that's still pretty weak for food.

    I started on Fishing and made a warrior first, using the Ivory tile to boost research to accelerate Fishing by 1 turn until it didn't make any difference. The first workboat was produced using a 3:hammers:tile. Worker was next on the build list while I researched Mining/Bronze Working. Whipping settlers will be a good way to get production here.

    Scouting in circles around the capital, I found this guy. He's down south.


    I also met Suryavarman but forgot to take a picture of his Alienish features. He's to our northwest.

    Once the first settler was complete, thanks to a 2-pop whip, I stopped and looked hard at the map. There are several block points and a lot of land to be had but some of it seriously lacks food.


    Techs so far have been... with AH queued after The Wheel.


    I investigated the possibility of a HA rush... Willem is still fair game while Sury has copper already hooked up. Of course I don't even know if I will have horses yet...


    This certainly looks like a more challenging map. Sury can be a trusted neighbor when you share his religion and OR, but otherwise he can be a pain in the buttocks. Willem doesn't value religious friendship that much unfortunately but for some reason he keeps founding them :lol:
     
  9. Generic_Leader

    Generic_Leader Chieftain

    Joined:
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    On first blush, for new cities, cow/wheat/spice looks like a good second city, cutting off Sury from whats between you and Willem. You are right in that this is a food poor start. A third city, on the west coast, with wheat and cows and maybe another jumbo, might be a good spot but it doesn't serve an aggressive set up very well. Unfortunately, any REXing towards Willem won't have much food at all, accepting maybe a cow site on the far east side of his border.

    Question: How do you put up those dot maps in-game? The ones behind Sury in your last picture.
     
  10. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Bug mod Alt-X to place them, Ctrl-X to show them.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    1804 UN

    Spoiler :


    Settled in place for the 2h. Turns out all we get is wha eaat! Not cool man. Open worker ---> AG ---> BW ----> AH ----> wheel. Improved wheat, then ivory, then mined hill, then helped in 2nd city...the worker had stuff to do. I tried for stonehenge in city #2 for failure cash. I...got stonehenge. I let it finish because a certain neighbor founded religion and I might have use for that...

    No copper. Horses. Willem is playing us tight and has lots of nice land so the plan was to chariot rush his sorry butt. Sury had other plans in mind, declaring on me with 4 units when I had > 15 chariots. Re-routing my forces NW, it seems Sury made his decision before I fasta fasta turned my forests into the mass chariots wonder:



    Now that plan B was completed, back to plan A while losing lots of gold/turn and in danger of strike:



    Willem built GLH for me and I was getting there towards a gprophet from SH. After a semi-grueling war (I lost a lot of chariots, but I had a lot. I blitzed his capitol HA style and had 2 settled GG's to support 5 xp units in 2 cities), I punted Willem off the continent and took peace with a nice take in "research":



    From there it's just cottages, limp to alpha then currency/col/monarchy, fill out the copious land, and win. I lost lib badly:



    But caught up no problems after that. Hannibal was tech leader but took a long, long time to cap brennus because I let willem live (vassal average garbage). I milked relations with Carthage while gifting mass media line techs to brennus post-cap (I was fast enough to get there first). The result was carthage + me + mehmed = victory.















    I was very much in the internet race, and had already spammed factories/coal in many of our cities. Civics were US/vassalage (for diplo win only, else FS)/eman/FM/OR. I kept a lot of forests around post-rush since for a long time I didn't have anything viable to chop and the health + production w/o SP later on is a boon. I didn't need to slog out a late war in this one fortunately. Hannibal could have been beaten but struggling like so isn't my cup of tea if I can just use him instead.

    Sury really forced my hand in this game. Once the double chariot rush was underway the stage was set.

     
  12. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Why are you researching TW? Cap is 7 turns from border pop at which time it will get automatic TR with the expansion you suggested (which looks like an ok spot btw). 1N of it is another possibility to get started on the wheat faster and have the TR immediately but it costs some riverside grassland long term if WIllem expands that way. I think he'll grab the resources in the jungle first though unless his invisible resources detector has spotted iron in your direction.
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    The AI can't spot resources unless it has the tech. However the AI loves early IW so it may well know of it nice and early especially on IMM/deity.

    Edit: I settled in place so it will be fun to watch this as the opening will be pretty different overall.
     
  14. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    Are you sury you want to settle towards Suryavarman without taking him out soon? It look like you may box him with maybe three cities, in which case he will go to war with you for sure. You should either take him out completely of risk a nasty spears vs chariots war...
     
  15. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Granted I don't need TW right now, probably AH first would be nice, although TW unlocks Pottery for Granaries.

    Regarding Sury: being Protective, maybe settling a hill in his direction is feasible... stacking a few archers there to take the hit should he DoW. I have to look at the save in a bit.
     
  16. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

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    I see a lot of trees for chopping, as well as Ivory.

    Gearing towards an Elephant war may be the safest course of action. Of course, Willem has Ivory as well, so you may want to make Suryavarman your target instead.

    If you do go this route, try to get enough Workers to do the chopping. Cities will not need great growth potential, but production will be important.
     
  17. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Are you sure about that? I've seen plenty of AI settling desert/tundra sites with absolutely nothing going on there and without having IW only to see it pop later.
     
  18. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

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    It could have something to do with the city selection algorithm.

    By the way, I often see the "blue circle" recommendations appear in strange places. At first, they often seem to be mediocre choices, but the revelation of strategic resources near there makes them gerat spots.
     
  19. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Elepult does sound appealing, it will take a while to get there though since commerce isn't exactly great from what is seen so far.
     
  20. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    It's been tested and proven that it doesn't know...
     

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