1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Dr kossin # 12

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Welcome to Dr kossin #12, now revisited.

    Dr is an acronym for Daily Round. Yes, I mean to get in an update every day to the games I will be playing. Of course there might be some days where I can only play a little or not at all, but I will make up for it those other days when I do have extra time on my hands.

    Previously, I had been using maps that had been verified for isolation or semi-isolation. I have terminated that practice as, while a common sort of map, it doesn't entirely reflect the reality of gameplay and was a big hint that there were at least 2 civilizations nearby even if you started on an island by yourself.

    Since I have become more-or-less comfortable on Immortal, the goal of the series is now for me to move even beyond Immortality, into Deity grounds. Hopefully, readers will also be able to pick up a few things here and there to alleviate their own playing.

    You, the reader, can help me achieve this goal by pointing out where I got astray, give suggestions on how to proceed, use complex abstract mathematical analysis to argue, curse at me or anything that you may like. Please note that you must respect the Terms of Service of CFC in any case :)

    You may shadow this game and post it here if you please, but I kindly request that you put it in spoiler tags and that anyone reading the report abstain from using information found there to help me out.

    Should you want more clarification about something I've done, just ask for it and I will try to answer as best as I can.

    Enough talk, on to the game.

    Dr kossin #12, revisited​


    Round 1 Taking a chunk of land
    Round 2 Teching through peacefully
    Round 3 Education is important
    Round 4 Towards Liberalism and beyond
    Round 5a Continental leadership
    Round 5b Intercontinental leadership

    Game settings
    Immortal
    Normal Speed
    Fractal
    No Events
    No Huts
    BTS 3.19 with BUG 4.2 in CustomAssets and BULL 1.0
    Everything else is normal.

    The leader, this time again, is Gilgamesh of Sumeria.

    Starting techs are The Wheel and Agriculture.

    His UU, the Vulture, is a 6 strength Axeman with +25% against melee units.

    His UB, the Ziggurat, is a Courthouse that's unlocked by Priesthood, rather than Code of Laws, and that cost a whooping 30:hammers: less.

    All in all, a very good leader in the hands of the human and the AI.

    The start:


    I leave fog-reading to the viewers as an exercise since it is trivial, as my University teachers were fond of saying.

    My thoughts on the start: we have coast to the east so a move 1E is likely best. This can also be good if there is a seafood resource there or if we are isolated to allow a shot at the GLH.
    1NE would give a head start on worker production but lose river access, riverside tiles, green tiles and a pig resource so it is not worth it in my opinion.
     
  2. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,487
    1E seems a bit of a gamble to say the least. It loses 2 hills, 1 rice, 4 forests, and it gains ... well just one riverside grass that we can see, maybe 2 as the river must go somewhere. but you might get a peak or something. Also river access for the city. The "coast" might be a 2-tile lake.

    In place seems like a nice city - tons of food and tons of hammers. This may be a leak in my game but isn't it a bit early to be thinking about the great lighthouse on turn zero?
     
  3. Monsterzuma

    Monsterzuma the sly one

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,984
    2 west gives you a 3 food start, 2 bare hills against early worker downtime and coastal with only 1 turn spent moving before settling. Downside is that you lose 1F (non-irrigated rice 2F surplus -> boosted center square 1F surplus), don't get a health bonus for fresh water and get a capital that can pretty much be used for production purposes only.
     
  4. Nares

    Nares Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,631
    Settle the rice.

    EDIT: There's pretty clearly desert in the fog 2W of the rice. I doubt it's floodplains because there's zero evidence of a river over there.

    Probably better to settle 1E.
     
  5. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    In place is 1 away from the coast which I don't like too much. 1E still has at least 4 hills and looks like a fine Bureau capital. Plus the added bonus of a possible levee later on.
    I mentioned GLH because
    1. the easiest way to nab it is with the capital... not the second city
    2. in case we're isolated (or not), a city 1 off the coast wouldn't benefit from it

    No rivers for commerce though... No irrigation either, just 1 farm 1S of the lake.

    Hard to say indeed if there's a river west. I'd guess not by the looks of it though.
     
  6. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,487
    OK I definitely need to brush up on fog-reading - what is it that shows us we're near the east coast?

    Re. commerce, in place still has 5 river grasslands which is as many as you can expect to be working for a long long time. It also retains 3 further probably-non-river grasslands which would be lost by moving 1E. In exchange you are taking 3 totally unknown tiles (although again maybe there is some knack I don't have for guessing what they are).
     
  7. raxid

    raxid Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    218
    ah yes, and it would always turn out that i had missed the day of lecture that made it so trivial. most annoying saying ever.
     
  8. Nares

    Nares Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,631
    The coastal tiles hiding in the fog.

    Odd that the map script starts one off the coast. Makes me think that's a multi-tile lake. You can't determine it easily because the one-tile lake we can see satisfies the fresh water access for any tile adjacent to the mystery water.
     
  9. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    You can just barely see the blue of the coast/10+ tile lake to the east. If you look closely, you'll see waves... indicating it's not fresh water.

    Indeed! Indeed!

    In any case, moving 1E will allow for a lighthouse and improve the lake 1N of the settler.
     
  10. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Round 1

    Following my instinct, I settled 1E and sure enough, that was coast. Unfortunately, there was no seafood to be had.


    Initial Techpath went as follows: AH>Mining>BW>Fishing>Sailing>Masonry>Pottery>Writing>Alphabet>Myst (Ziggurats/Monarchy)

    Meet the neighbors from the east...



    After finishing AH, we get a nice surprise in our BFC... looks like we get another easy map after all.


    I settled my second city to claim several resources as well as to block land.


    With the help of some pre-chops and pre-mines, I successfully built the said wonder...


    After running 2 scientists and hoping for a Great Scientist, we are of course "cursed" with a Great Merchant.


    I stopped here as there are a few things I can do with him
    1. Settle... food and gold are always good.
    2. Trade mission... around 1000 gold to run the slider at 100% for 30-something turns
    3. Bulb Currency/Metal Casting... not the best investment but could be useful for trading
    4. Golden Age

    I'm hesitating between 1 and 2 while also considering bulbing MC.

    Techs - Dunno what Mao is smoking but he's slow as hell.



    Land overview - 2 barb cities I'll take and room for 1 more city up north. (All 3 coastal)


    Finally, Diplomacy.


    I apologize in advance for the peninsula start, but Fractal maps tend to give this most of the time... perhaps I'll play a Pangea next game. They either are much easier (more diplomacy) or harder (not enough land)... in my experience they tend to be a lot easier as you can sell techs for deficit research a lot more.

    I can't believe I've actually played this over the Year turnover... anyway, have a good 2010 everyone!
     
  11. JBossch

    JBossch King

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    914
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    How are your trade routes? Do you have access to Mao and Pacal yet? GLH is useless otherwise.
     
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,910
    It's almost certain he does actually. I'm pretty deep in this game but I didn't get early wonders...and I'm not doing hot in tech.
     
  13. Kid R

    Kid R Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,487
    This is an awesome tip, thanks. :goodjob: It sounds obvious now you say it but I never knew.

    I shadowed a little further that you've got yet, but tech has been tough for me too - it's an interesting map. I settled in place and rexed hard instead of building Glighthouse so I've been struggling with 0-20% slider for ages. We have tons of good land though so fingers crossed.

    Happy new year and happy Civving to all in 2010. Or alternatively good luck getting a job if like me that's what you really should be doing instead :p
     
  14. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Sorry, I don't have access to the game right now but yes, I do have trade routes with both Mao and Pacal.
     
  15. Torgny

    Torgny Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    Brighton, England
    Would first of all thank you for your threads. I find them pedagogical, easy to understand and you explain very well what you are doing and why you are doing it.

    I would settle the Merchant in place. Both the money and extra food is very useful to have so early in the game. And they last forever.
     
  16. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,301
    Location:
    Settle in place
    Pedagogical? :lol:

    This looks like a solid start. ONce the bronze is online it will be easy enough to take the barb cities. Either way there i little need to rush them as of now.

    I would be inclined to settle the GM here. It will provide you with really lots and lots of foor and gold throughout the game. I think it will be worth more then grabbing 1000 gold.
     
  17. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Round 2

    I went with the long term approach and settled the GM. Food isn't grand in Uruk so it was helpful going ahead.


    After Priesthood, Pacal was willing to trade Monarchy but I didn't have anything to trade so I headed to Currency for a nice trade.


    I switched immediately to get more happy cap...


    Resource trades for gpt are a very good way to keep up the slider. Even if you own only 1 of it.


    Mao offered IW for cheap. We don't have iron yet but with a few border pops we should.


    I finally captured a barb city and unlocked Heroic Epic at the same time.


    Trading was very scarce and i had to research mostly everything... mathematics... CoL...

    At 25% odds, I spawned another GM gaaaaaaaaah!


    Mao turned out to be a better trade partner than Pacal strangely...


    After considering my position, I used the GM for a Golden Age to farm a Great Scientist for an Academy.



    I also captured the last barb city, giving me 9 cities in all.


    Once Civil Service was done, I switched civics to ones I'd be using for a while.


    I finally got my Academy, albeit late.


    I stopped after researching Paper and trading maps with Pacal.

    Tech overview



    Diplomacy


    Neighbor. Not sure if it's one of the Khans or Sitting Bull. Either way, I can't use him before Astronomy.


    Mao is in war mode. I've started scouting his cities but can't find any noticeable stack. Moreover, he lacks Construction so I really don't expect too much of him if I am his target. in any case, I've started building a few barracks and units to prepare for a sword attack :lol: Maybe I can divert a turn of research into Archery since I am protective (and whip a wall)

    Gameplan: Oxford University should go up fast given that I have stone hooked up. Otherwise, Cuirassiers look like a good way to gain control of the island and more or less secure victory. I'll have iron in about 30 turns so it is definitely doable.
     
  18. Berkobob

    Berkobob Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Nicely played as always Kossin. Another thanks for running these threads, very informative and entertaining.

    Will Optics give you contact with the +1 sight over water tiles? Wouldnt divert from the Curiasser beeline to achieve it though, game winning army >>>>>> another tech trading partner :)
     
  19. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Contact yes but in any case it would probably only be useful for selling old techs!
     
  20. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Round 3

    Not a long round... I basically researched Education and stopped.

    I bolstered defenses for a while as I was watching Mao's stack grow. His target was Pacal though and he successfully captured Chictchen Itza although made no further progress as of now.


    Mao was willing to part from Marble at a cheap price (I have Iron hooked up so Copper is useless right now) which will allow me to build Heroic Epic and Taj Mahal faster.


    Education was in at 660AD... not that fast since I didn't have an extra Scientist to bulb.


    The tech situation is kinda ridiculous. Pacal is fast but he's going after dead-end tech after dead-end tech although he does have some nice military techs.



    Demographics... I seem to be in control.


    Should Mao capture another Mayan city, I will bribe him to Peace with Pacal so that I can at least keep some trade routes while I war.

    The plan is Military Tradition from Liberalism. After that, I'll tech towards Astronomy after nabbing Gunpowder to build Cuirassiers and take out my neighbors.
     

Share This Page