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Dr kossin #15

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by kossin, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Welcome to Dr kossin #15.

    Dr is an acronym for Daily Round. Yes, I mean to get in an update every day to the games I will be playing. Of course there might be some days where I can only play a little or not at all, but I will make up for it those other days when I do have extra time on my hands.

    Previously, I had been using maps that had been verified for isolation or semi-isolation. I have terminated that practice as, while a common sort of map, it doesn't entirely reflect the reality of gameplay and was a big hint that there were at least 2 civilizations nearby even if you started on an island by yourself.

    Since I have become more-or-less comfortable on Immortal, the goal of the series is now for me to move even beyond Immortality, into Deity grounds. Hopefully, readers will also be able to pick up a few things here and there to alleviate their own playing.

    You, the reader, can help me achieve this goal by pointing out where I got astray, give suggestions on how to proceed, use complex abstract mathematical analysis to argue, curse at me or anything that you may like. Please note that you must respect the Terms of Service of CFC in any case :)

    You may shadow this game and post it here if you please, but I kindly request that you put it in spoiler tags and that anyone reading the report abstain from using information found there to help me out.

    Should you want more clarification about something I've done, just ask for it and I will try to answer as best as I can.

    Enough talk, on to the game.

    Dr kossin #15​


    Round 1 There is food after all!
    Round 2 Crawling to an Economy
    Round 3 Towards Liberalism
    Round 4 Cultural Expansion

    Game settings
    Immortal
    Normal Speed
    Inland_Sea
    Cylindrical world wrap

    No Events
    No Huts
    BTS 3.19 with BUG 4.2 in CustomAssets and BULL 1.0
    Everything else is normal.

    The leader, this time, is:


    Please refer to the Roman Civ IV wiki for more information on this leader/nation.

    If the RNG god is kind, we'll be able to build a couple Praetorians and make an immense stack to roll over the map as we progress in techs...

    The start:


    Ewww... that'd better not be all the food we get. I want, no wait, I demand a grain resource to the west of the settler!

    I'm not familiar with this map type... it'll be the first Inland_Sea I play actually.

    Techs: Beelining AH is a no-brainer. Unfortunately, unless there's a resource to the west that can be improved with Agriculture/Hunting, it looks as though this will be a warrior start rather than a worker, since it'd be stuck mining a hill or farming a grassland tile... I haven't done any math to back this claim up though so I may be quite wrong. There could also be a pig resource on the hill 2S of the warrior.

    We're way up north of the map, 3 tiles north is the edge of the map. Cylindrical world wrap means we can cross east-west making blocking a little more difficult and also border tension higher. Less odds of finding Mansa safe in a corner behind a religious buddy you could say.

    I'll try to focus a bit more on the early game in this game, as it's usually the most important one.
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    You will probably *need* a farmed grass tile, ESPECIALLY if you don't have another resource.

    Just be thankful the cow didn't block out the sheep, too. If anything can balance the civs, it's RNG hell :lol:.
     
  3. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Well, I moved the warrior and settled in place... let's just say food won't be an issue.
     
  4. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

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    Very interesting map choice. If I understand correctly, you will pretty much have 2 neighboring AIs, and the other sides of your borders will be the water and the edge of the map.

    Cylindrical world wrap throws things off, though. The corner is where more possibilities for bordering AIs happen. But the middle of the top and bottom edges of the map are more isolated.
     
  5. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    The cow & sheep may have been added by the normalizer.
     
  6. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    >>The cow & sheep may have been added by the normalizer.
    settle and see the food is abundant, or beyond that: pig+corn as extra in the fat cross
     
  7. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    there is no forest blocking tiles so cap should get 4-5 specials. Could have been marble and metal, but even then it is passable.
     
  8. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Round 1

    As I said, after moving the warrior, I found a pig resource on top of the hill I had mentioned. I settled in place and was pleasantly surprised.
    Spoiler :


    I was met by Suleiman to the east pretty early.
    Spoiler :


    I got a forest growth just as my worker was to be completed. While this means more hammers, it meant I couldn't pre-improve that tile when moving my worker to improve the corn.
    Spoiler :


    I met Lincoln from down south, at least that's where I think he is.
    Spoiler :


    Once the corn was finished improving, I assigned my worker to the shortest route towards the Pig, the closest and next best tile to improve. Unfortunately there was no way to micro tiles to get AH 1 turn sooner, other than skipping the corn tile for several turns. In the end I settled for having 1 idle worker turn.
    Spoiler :


    My initial warrior met up with Hammurabi who is just next door to the west.
    Spoiler :


    From far away came Saladin... without a religion!
    Spoiler :


    As my worker was moving to the sheep tile, which was 3 tiles away from the cows, I improved this tile for 1 turn and cancelled it. The worker wouldn't benefit from moving 2 tiles right away since its movement would be lost by climbing the hill anyway. This meant that farming this tile later on took 1 less turn.
    Spoiler :


    Once I hit size 3 I'd been building a settler for the horses close by...
    Spoiler :
    To facilitate growth, I borrowed Rome's corn.


    I'd also just finished Bronze Working. I did not revolt right away, instead waiting 1 turn for the worker in Rome to finish. He could start chopping/improving a tile during Anarchy.
    Spoiler :


    The next to last AI sent an envoy from west of Hammurabi...
    Spoiler :


    I probably had enough land for a peaceful expansion, but Hammy's land just looked a bit too good to leave it to him. I pillaged his copper on turn 2 of the war since it was on a hill.
    Spoiler :
    Razed as I didn't like its emplacement.


    After finding the Capital well garrisoned, I went south to take this nice city...
    Spoiler :


    Next turn, instead of sending everything right to Babylon, I juggled troops around a bit, while staying within striking distance of it. This means, no more than 4 tiles away and it made Hammurabi move his troops out of Babylon to protect his other cities/harass my units. Big mistake on his part!
    Spoiler :
    Caught with his pants down!

    It will be a nice Bureau capital while Rome can become a GP farm with all its food.



    At that point, Hammy is willing to talk.
    Spoiler :


    I think I have enough troops to take Nippur to unify my empire but it'll leave him with 1 city. It may also give me enough research to negotiate peace for Alphabet instead, which would be a better haul.

    Techs
    Spoiler :

    Alphabet should allow some trades...


    Overview
    Spoiler :


    Diplomacy: -1 with Lincoln for Declarition of War on Hammurabi.


    I have to start running scientists...
     
  9. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    i dig your style :)
     
  10. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Inner sea with cylindrical wrap makes for interesting things. There's a huge mass of land to your west and southwest, so you'll want lots of settlers. Can't go wrong with IMP/ORG in a situation like that - especially once you get CoL.
     
  11. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    That's the way it looks right now. A lot of land southwest and I'm guessing some as well east. I'll get something to scout that direction pronto. I remember the ALC game played on this map type which is what kinda lured me to it... I really liked that game!

    You, sir, are a psychic.

    Thanks :)

    Aye! Iron would give me a nice defender too against KK should he want to dance that way. I think I'll still take Currency over CoL first though but we'll have to see how things go I guess.
     
  12. hexem3117

    hexem3117 Warlord

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    Building a city one NW of the spice on the East side of Rome could be a good idea to grab those sheep, corn, and later spice. Explore to the East! Knowledge is power!

    Are you going to take Nippur? I probably would wait till Hammy settles another city, then take out Nippur and the other city. I was going to say you should just take Nippur now because the AI usually plants sub-optimal cities, but there is the chance that he'd settled something worth having, like the Horse/Rice area. It's doubtful, however.
     
  13. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    He has another city. It's to the NW of the known map. The reason for wanting to take Nippur is for getting Alphabet out of the Peace deal. If he wants to give it right now, I'll probably re-think about taking it right now but it's a good city probably worth having.
     
  14. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Round 2

    I started running 2 scientists in Rome and Antium to help with research and one day, have an Academy!

    After mustering my forces, I assaulted Hammurabi's second-to-last city and then sued for peace upon capture.
    Spoiler :




    I did this trade with a Monarchy trade in mind for growing my cities as right now I was stuck at 4 happy and 5 in the Capital.
    Spoiler :


    Seeing KK was sending a settler, I hurried one and got here just before him...
    Spoiler :
    Not the spot I wanted to settle, but anything else loses me the city.



    KK actually beelined HBR this game, meaning he had Iron for trading late. Pretty much everyone else had Alphabet at this point.
    Spoiler :


    The founder of Hinduism and likely to be generating a lot of gold from the shrine is...
    Spoiler :

    He's south of KK. I'm almost running out of gold... (hint: build science in your cities)


    I settled my first GS in Babylon, where I was constructing my new Palace.
    Spoiler :

    You can also see that Currency was just completed and that we're back in the green.


    With Currency in hands, I researched Priesthood for acquiring Monarchy in a trade.
    The nice thing about Currency is you can trade for gold...
    Spoiler :


    Finally got Monarchy!
    Spoiler :


    Some more gold... he was researching Alphabet.
    Spoiler :


    Now, Pacal sent me an Hindu missionary. I didn't revolt right away as I was hoping to be first to Code of Laws... it also allowed me to get brownie Diplo.
    Spoiler :


    And I was first anyway for the religion. It also slows AI priority of the tech meaning I will likely have an edge once I reach Civil Service.
    Spoiler :


    I had spare cows but this is the only thing I could trade for his resource... I had a spare one and he had Iron anyway.
    Spoiler :


    Then I decided to stop... economy is in good shape, KK is in war-mode but his stacks are moving away from us (taking barb cities south).

    Techs
    Spoiler :




    Diplomacy is pretty good.
    Spoiler :


    Empire overview - there's a settler moving to the marble location. I still need to explore down south, I may have room for a lot more cities there from the looks of it.
    Spoiler :


    Explored area of the map
    Spoiler :


    There's a lot of land on these maps! I can probably get 15 cities now without stretching things too much...

    Nobody but Lincoln has Aesthetics... I might consider a run at TGL+Parthenon with the NE and a Forum in Rome for GPP purposes...
    Since nobody wants to trade Mathematics, that's probably what I'll do while someone builds the Hanging Gardens... actually, I shouldn't have put any 0% research in it now that I look back. I might even have an easy time being to Music first.
    The only thing is Bureaucracy will be pretty good here so I shouldn't delay it too much...

    To do as well: Organized Religion and spreading Hinduism. I also need some more workers...
     
  15. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    Moscow? :D I must've missed your Russian conquest
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Funny, I thought the same thing when I wrote that (thinking about a SG game...) and then forgot to edit it. Thanks!
     
  17. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    If I had to bet money, I'm guessing KK's going to go stomp on Hammy. Maybe ready some troops in hopes of nabbing the city from under his nose? You're going to get pressed culturally a bit once Hammy's culture disappears.
     
  18. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

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    I would take your bet but that would be robbery:lol:
    Most likely Kubla [and Pacal with his pathetic hand full of imaginarry army] will go for Lincoln...

    Gamewise I can only suggest not trading CoL to AI's. On land size available this alone would be enough to win.
     
  19. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    That's what I thought as well but he's not massing any units there...
    Babylon is getting an Academy in 2 turns so that should help with Culture. The city is far enough that it won't put much pressure on me before I have established my own culture I think.
     
  20. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Wow...I've got to read your threads more often Kos...although your advice has been helpful in the ECs. I learned several things reading through those first two rounds - like finer details that I really never considered. I like your detail.

    A few questions:

    1) You settled your first scientist or built an Academy? I thought I read u were thinking Acad first. Which do you feel is best or is it situational. I find it situational as I either settle/bulb/Acad based on the situation. Which one is ideal in most cases?

    2) How did you know Pacal was researching Alpha? I didn't quite get that

    3) Your trading of copper for gold in a case where a civ already has iron is a revelation for me. I usually avoid trading strat resources at all cost, but that makes perfect sense. ARe there any cases not to do this though?

    4) I'd be interested in your take on when and how long to run 0 research. I've been utilizing this ploy for a while now with some success, but I'm not sure if I'm ideally effective at this ploy, especially when I try out higher level games (emp+ usually on xotms)

    5) How many chariots or other unit combos did you use on Hammy? I guess chariots are ideal vs. his bowmen. Did you have or need support units?

    6) Looks like you used a feint on Ham. Can you explain your military genius here?

    sorry for all the questions, but this is juicy stuff...ha

    thanks
     

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